Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

Started by OttoVonBismarck, May 02, 2022, 08:02:53 PM

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Syt

My expected response from GOP:
- egregious breach of judicial norms (leaking the doc) that needs to be punished
- shows that libs/dems/communists will politicize the SCOTUS if decisions don't go their way
- a victory for the weakest of society who can't defend themselves (unborn life)
- putting the decision where it belongs: the hands of the voters
-giving freedom back to Americans after wresting it from evil DC

Bonus: preaching puritan sexual morals (if you don't want babies you should keep those knees shut and also wait till you're married).
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The Brain

Can the Supreme Court be wrong? Doesn't it settle questions regarding the Constitution? Non-rhetorical. Law and the real world are two very different things.
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Admiral Yi

Quote from: The Brain on May 03, 2022, 12:17:43 AMCan the Supreme Court be wrong? Doesn't it settle questions regarding the Constitution? Non-rhetorical. Law and the real world are two very different things.

Prior decisions can be overturned.

Berkut

Is there any legal meaning behind justices exclaiming over and over that their reasoning is only applicable to some narrow interpretation?

How does that even make any sense? If I say that all rectangles have four sides, therefore a square must be a rectangle, saying that you should not apply that same principle to a trapezoid doesn't make any sense.

Roe was based on the recognized right to privacy. If you are arguing that Roe was bad law, then how can you argue that the recognition of a right to privacy is not ALSO bad law?
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The Brain

Quote from: Berkut on May 03, 2022, 01:08:26 AMIs there any legal meaning behind justices exclaiming over and over that their reasoning is only applicable to some narrow interpretation?

How does that even make any sense? If I say that all rectangles have four sides, therefore a square must be a rectangle, saying that you should not apply that same principle to a trapezoid doesn't make any sense.

Roe was based on the recognized right to privacy. If you are arguing that Roe was bad law, then how can you argue that the recognition of a right to privacy is not ALSO bad law?

Anything is possible. The secret ingredient is GOP. :)
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Josquius

Amazing, in 2022 they've decided not enough women are dying and need to go back to the 50s
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Syt

Well, at least you can rely on FOX to assemble a diverse round of talking heads on the subject.

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garbon

Leaks are important if this is the kinda shit they want to hide from us.
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Syt

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/pops.12803

QuoteAbortion Attitudes: An Overview of Demographic and Ideological Differences
Danny Osborne,Yanshu Huang,Nickola C. Overall,Robbie M. Sutton,Aino Petterson,Karen M. Douglas,Paul G. Davies,Chris G. Sibley

Abstract

Despite being a defining issue in the culture war, the political psychology of abortion attitudes remains poorly understood. We address this oversight by reviewing existing literature and integrating new analyses of several large-scale, cross-sectional, and longitudinal datasets to identify the demographic and ideological correlates of abortion attitudes. Our review and new analyses indicate that abortion support is increasing modestly over time in both the United States and New Zealand. We also find that a plurality of respondents (43.8%) in the United States are consistently "pro-choice," whereas 14.8% are consistently "pro-life," across various elective and traumatic abortion scenarios. We then show that age, religiosity, and conservatism correlate negatively, whereas Openness to Experience correlates positively, with abortion support. New analyses of heterosexual couples further reveal that women's and men's religiosity decrease their romantic partner's abortion support. Noting inconsistent gender differences in attitudes toward abortion, we then discuss the impact of traditional gender-role attitudes and sexism on abortion attitudes and conclude that, rather than misogyny, benevolent sexism—the belief that women should be cherished and protected—best explains opposition to abortion. Our review thus provides a comprehensive overview of the demographic and ideological variables that underly abortion attitudes and, hence, the broader culture war.

(Full article at link.)
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celedhring

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 02, 2022, 10:06:35 PMThis is just the very beginning of a constitutional and interstate shitshow of the kind America has not seen since before the Civil War.  The crazy bounty and beg your rapist laws are just the starting point in the avalanche of punitive legislation that is coming.  The antis will not be content with total victory, they will demand more and push the envelope farther.  And the safe haven states will push back leading to escalating moves and sanctions and countersanctions.

People didn't care that much about abortion rights because they didn't have to because of Roe.  Now sides were be taken and the width of the sidelines will shrink.

Yeah the whole "we'll get you even if you abort elsewhere" approach seems a pretty vindictive feature of the American anti-abortion movement. Even Francoist Spain looked elsewhere when thousands of Spanish women traveled to France or the UK for an abortion. And you know, we were an actual fascist nation.

Syt

Quote from: Josquius on May 03, 2022, 02:32:45 AMAmazing, in 2022 they've decided not enough women are dying and need to go back to the 50s

What rankles me, is that the same anti-abortionists cease their support as soon as the child is in the world. Can't afford support yourself and your kid? Shouldn't have gotten pregnant. Uninsured and have to pay the doctors etc. for the delivery? Shouldn't have gotten pregnant. Can't afford to take time off work after birth, and have no one to look after your kid? Shouldn't have gotten pregnant. Also, we'll make sure you have limited access to contraceptives. You slut.
If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Syt

If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

The Brain

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Sheilbh

Quote from: Syt on May 03, 2022, 12:13:10 AMMy expected response from GOP:
- egregious breach of judicial norms (leaking the doc) that needs to be punished
I think there is going to be a lot of this because it's something a lot of more centrist liberal types will, perhaps inadvertently give a bit too much air time too, when it's not really the main issue here.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a challenge to Obergefell and possibly even anti-sodomy laws.

QuoteThe kindest thing you can say is it's a first draft and it reads like it.  On an issue that it acknowledges is divisive, it seems to revel in its intemperateness.  And for an opinion that holds Roe to strict standards of formalist constitutional logic, it utterly fails those standards in attempting to distinguish the other "autonomy" cases e.g. Griswold, Eisenstadt, Lawrence, Obergefell, etc.   No surprise the Chief doesn't want to touch this and I wonder if one or more of the majority (Kavanaugh maybe?) splits off into a concurrence.
Yeah it's not - from the bits I've read - anything like a judgement I've read before. Admittedly I've not really ever looked into them from the Supreme Court so this may be normal.

QuoteYeah the whole "we'll get you even if you abort elsewhere" approach seems a pretty vindictive feature of the American anti-abortion movement. Even Francoist Spain looked elsewhere when thousands of Spanish women traveled to France or the UK for an abortion. And you know, we were an actual fascist nation.
That's one of the really terrifying things about this. There's a whole body of absolutely devastating case law in Ireland not from punishing women who came to the UK for abortion, but once the state became aware, preventing them from going. It feels like only a matter of time before we have that in the US.

Although the other thought on that is does that move abortion more squarely into Supreme Court jurisdiction if it's involving people crossing state lines, or laws prohibiting activities in other states?
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Agelastus

Quote from: The Brain on May 03, 2022, 04:02:59 AMAmerica's is a model supreme court?

Coat Hanger abortions.

Something that many in the USA no doubt fear is coming back, with lives lost.

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