Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

[merithyn]

The only deaths caused by violence that I know about (there may be others) were murders of doctors carried out by anti-abortionists.  Now that the right wing Christian fundamentalists see victory at hand, if that is taken away, there is a non zero chance that sort of killing starts occurring again.

As someone at least sympathetic to the pro-life cause you might want to think hard about what other deaths might be involved in talking about abortion...

By this you clearly mean all of the women who died in botched abortions prior to Roe v Wade, yes? Because quite frankly I legitimately can't see any other "life" at risk here.

[merithyn]

Well it would require 100% support. Is Manchin down?

No, time to see how outraged Collins and Murkowski really are.

Hard for me not to see them in the crosshairs on this one. They held the power to prevent a second rapist from getting on the court.

And why the hell would anyone think that a court with at least two guys with so little respect for women would do anything less than this? Let's not even get into Coney-Barrett's obsession with giving birth.

[Threviel]

Roe v Wade made US abortion law go a bit to far. In most other countries you can abort in the first trimester, up until a certain week. Roe v Wade made it legal to abort until the day of birth more or less.

In practice I don't think that's been a problem at all, but it's an own goal when it comes to the perception of abortion. The pro-lifers can in bad faith portray abortion as far worse than what it actually is and then...

So yeah, there was room for a compromise and more rational federal laws perhaps, very little practical changes, but some optically more decent laws that make it work as in other countries. All this with the caveat that I'm going by a 20 year old lecture on US abortion law and am probably wrong.

This ruling really breaks my heart, so many lives to be destroyed, so much poverty and heart break.

The democrats really need to get their shit together. The only possible light in the tunnel is that the reps might be taking it too far and create a strong backlash in a decade or two, we'll just have to hope they won't be able to corrupt the entire state until then.

[Jacob]

Roe v Wade was not an own goal. The anti-choice movement would not have stopped their crusade against sex and against women if there'd been "slightly less access to abortion" or whatever. It betrays a complete misunderstanding of the American right if you think "room for compromise and more rational federal laws" would've made a difference.

[Threviel]

Yeah, you're probably correct. A compromise could be made with a sensible republican party, but with a sensible republican party there would be no need.

Fucking zealots.

[merithyn]

You guys keep acting like this has anything to do with unborn zygotes and fetuses. It doesn't. This is about controlling people and keeping them under a thumb.

If it were about the children, legislation would be put in place to protect them after they were born. If it were about preventing abortions, these same states who claim to want to end them wouldn't be removing sex ed classes and contraception out of schools.

Would that I had such naiveté. Would that I could afford it.

[Josquius]

Roe v Wade made US abortion law go a bit to far. In most other countries you can abort in the first trimester, up until a certain week. Roe v Wade made it legal to abort until the day of birth more or less.

Is that true?
I'm no expert on the specifics of American abortion law but this sounds unlikely.

[crazy canuck]

You guys keep acting like this has anything to do with unborn zygotes and fetuses. It doesn't. This is about controlling people and keeping them under a thumb.

If it were about the children, legislation would be put in place to protect them after they were born. If it were about preventing abortions, these same states who claim to want to end them wouldn't be removing sex ed classes and contraception out of schools.

Would that I had such naiveté. Would that I could afford it.

You guys refers to exactly two guys.  BB, who once again earns my quote in his signature.  And Threv, who agreed he was wrong.

[Threviel]

Roe v Wade made US abortion law go a bit to far. In most other countries you can abort in the first trimester, up until a certain week. Roe v Wade made it legal to abort until the day of birth more or less.

Is that true?
I'm no expert on the specifics of American abortion law but this sounds unlikely.

It's quite true and lots of anti-choice propaganda centered on the grisly way abortions are done in the third trimester. Ignoring the fact that such abortions are most often, probably always, done due to medical reasons.

Nevertheless, if the right to abortions are based on the woman's right to her own body it's a right the day before birth as well as the day after conception.

[garbon]

Roe v Wade made US abortion law go a bit to far. In most other countries you can abort in the first trimester, up until a certain week. Roe v Wade made it legal to abort until the day of birth more or less.

Is that true?
I'm no expert on the specifics of American abortion law but this sounds unlikely.

It's quite true and lots of anti-choice propaganda centered on the grisly way abortions are done in the third trimester. Ignoring the fact that such abortions are most often, probably always, done due to medical reasons.

Nevertheless, if the right to abortions are based on the woman's right to her own body it's a right the day before birth as well as the day after conception.

According CDC data in 2019 fewer than 1% of abortions took place after 21 weeks. With 3rd trimester beginning at 28 weeks, not even worth talking about unless just highlighting how the crazed right wing will spin anything and everything to their ends.

[Threviel]

According CDC data in 2019 fewer than 1% of abortions took place after 21 weeks. With 3rd trimester beginning at 28 weeks, not even worth talking about unless just highlighting how the crazed right wing will spin anything and everything to their ends.

I was going for that spin, sorry if I was unclear. I did not have the numbers, but I assumed numbers like you say and that's why I said that it's not a practical problem.

In practice I don't think that's been a problem at all, but it's an own goal when it comes to the perception of abortion. The pro-lifers can in bad faith portray abortion as far worse than what it actually is and then...

[alfred russel]

Dems still control Congress, barely.
Could push through a national law prohibiting state sanctions vs crossing state lines to get abortions or advice.  Commerce clause. Better get moving fast.

Not sure you could get through a filibuster.

[garbon]

According CDC data in 2019 fewer than 1% of abortions took place after 21 weeks. With 3rd trimester beginning at 28 weeks, not even worth talking about unless just highlighting how the crazed right wing will spin anything and everything to their ends.

I was going for that spin, sorry if I was unclear. I did not have the numbers, but I assumed numbers like you say and that's why I said that it's not a practical problem.

In practice I don't think that's been a problem at all, but it's an own goal when it comes to the perception of abortion. The pro-lifers can in bad faith portray abortion as far worse than what it actually is and then...

The thing is they will always find something so not sure there could have been any relevant difference.

[Eddie Teach]

Well it would require 100% support. Is Manchin down?

No, time to see how outraged Collins and Murkowski really are.

Hard for me not to see them in the crosshairs on this one. They held the power to prevent a second rapist from getting on the court.

And why the hell would anyone think that a court with at least two guys with so little respect for women would do anything less than this? Let's not even get into Coney-Barrett's obsession with giving birth.

Who was the first?

[Berkut]

Roe v Wade made US abortion law go a bit to far. In most other countries you can abort in the first trimester, up until a certain week. Roe v Wade made it legal to abort until the day of birth more or less.

Is that true?
I'm no expert on the specifics of American abortion law but this sounds unlikely.

It's quite true and lots of anti-choice propaganda centered on the grisly way abortions are done in the third trimester. Ignoring the fact that such abortions are most often, probably always, done due to medical reasons.

Nevertheless, if the right to abortions are based on the woman's right to her own body it's a right the day before birth as well as the day after conception.

It is not at all true, actually.