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Was James I of England a good king?

Started by Savonarola, February 10, 2022, 04:06:04 PM

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Was James I of England a good king?

He was a great king
0 (0%)
He was a good king
4 (33.3%)
He was a mediocre king
8 (66.7%)
He was a bad king
0 (0%)
He was a terrible king
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Savonarola

I was listening to a series of lectures on modern Western political thought.  The professor begins with a brief discussion about Francis Bacon before moving on to a more serious discussion about Thomas Hobbes; but also gives an explanation of the historic context that led to the Protectorate and the formation of Hobbes's thought.  In that he described James I as "A disaster," but really didn't give any specifics as to why.  I'm curious if Languish would agree.
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

The Minsky Moment

Define good.

Robert Cecil was an effective chief minister, his successors not so much.  James managed to steer clear of embroiling his kingdoms into war, much to their benefit.  "Disaster" seems extreme.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Sheilbh

I'd say good.

I think there's a version where a lot of the tensions and divisions that explode in the war derive from James' reign and he has a lot of similar leanings of a very liturgical/sacramental version of religion, lots of favourites, leanings towards a more absolutist political vision. But I think all of that is true but James managed to balance those tensions of two kingdoms, two churches, rising Puritan force in religion and politics against his own political direction in a way that Charles never managed but that I think was actually quite impressive.

My view is the tensions were more driven by divisions within his kingdoms over religion, politics, class etc than by his personal politics and he broadly managed to balance them against each other. In part because he was actually relatively tolerant for an early modern monarch and tolerated religious and political difference in his kingdoms to a pretty impressive degree.

Like Elizabeth he was peaceful and avoided big expensive foreign interventions beyond the resources of the crown (which is partly why he could manage those interests).
Let's bomb Russia!

Admiral Yi

He's pretty much an unknown entity to me.  All I know is Spud played him in the Kate Blanchett movie.

He's the one who got Gloriously Revolutionized, tight?

Sheilbh

Nope. This is James I of Engand and VI of Scotland, Charles I's dad, succeeded Elizabeth. "The wisest fool in Christendom" and probably gay.

That's James II.
Let's bomb Russia!

Savonarola

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 10, 2022, 04:51:01 PM
He's pretty much an unknown entity to me.  All I know is Spud played him in the Kate Blanchett movie.

He's the one who got Gloriously Revolutionized, tight?

No, that was James II; James I was the first one who was both King of Scotland  :scots: (as James VI) and England.  He's also the one for whom the King James Version of the bible and the Jacobean period are named.

Edit:  Too late
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

Habbaku

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 10, 2022, 04:26:37 PM
Like Elizabeth he was peaceful

:hmm:

But yes, describing James as "a disaster" is bewildering.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

Syt

Was James I the one who had the bible translated to prove his faith, and so the church wouldn't bother him and his gay lover? Or was that a Martinus fantasy? :unsure:
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Richard Hakluyt

He was mediocre or good; I would incline towards good for similar reasons to what others have stated. I can't see disaster at all  :hmm:

The Brain

I'm curious, how did the professor describe Charles I?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Sheilbh

Quote from: The Brain on February 10, 2022, 05:06:43 PM
I'm curious, how did the professor describe Charles I?
Oh - is he a "Charles, King and Martyr" type (:x)? A little underwhelmed by James' timid embrace of absolutism and crypto-Popery.

Quote:hmm:

But yes, describing James as "a disaster" is bewildering.
Peaceful/defensive maybe better? No desperately expensive interventions on the continent.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2022, 05:00:23 PM
Was James I the one who had the bible translated to prove his faith, and so the church wouldn't bother him and his gay lover? Or was that a Martinus fantasy? :unsure:
That's Marty's fantasy :lol:

He probably was gay (acknowledging the difficulty of pushing that term into the past) - he certainly had lots of favourites etc. I don't really think that really motivated his translation of the bible and I don't think the Supreme Governor of the Church has to do anything to stop them bothering him, he can just tell them to stop.
Let's bomb Russia!

Richard Hakluyt

He fathered children and seemed to like young men, I would just leave it at that.