Failed State Index 2009

[Neil]

I cannot believe you latch on to this and ignore how we arbitrarily suspend and violate human rights according to them.

Shrugh. Like I said, I think we get the ratings we do on things like "human rights violations" because we don't distribute wealth in a satisfactory manner for those making lists like this. They are all tied up together. The particular rating that they massage to get the result they want isn't really all THAT interesting, except to illustrate how silly the entire thing is.

Actually, I think they also ding you on human rights for the death penalty.  Same for Japan.

[Valmy]

Shrugh. Like I said, I think we get the ratings we do on things like "human rights violations" because we don't distribute wealth in a satisfactory manner for those making lists like this. They are all tied up together. The particular rating that they massage to get the result they want isn't really all THAT interesting, except to illustrate how silly the entire thing is.

I think it is them blowing shit like Guantanamo and what Neil said out of proportion, as foreigners tend to do.

[Neil]

we could also question "sustainable": Oman for example  has dwindling oil reserves, and oil is its main engine. doesn't sound too sustainable to me.

Depends on how far out you're looking.

[Berkut]

we could also question "sustainable": Oman for example  has dwindling oil reserves, and oil is its main engine. doesn't sound too sustainable to me.

Depends on how far out you're looking.

Doesn't the same thing apply to the Scandi countries? I seem to recall that their welfare states are pretty dependent on oil income as well.

[Neil]

we could also question "sustainable": Oman for example  has dwindling oil reserves, and oil is its main engine. doesn't sound too sustainable to me.

Depends on how far out you're looking.

Doesn't the same thing apply to the Scandi countries? I seem to recall that their welfare states are pretty dependent on oil income as well.

Norway certainly is.

[Sheilbh]

How do you account for al-Shabaab then?

The lads are pirates.  I saw an interview with a few members of them and they said they were in it to buy a big house with a pool, get a wife and enough money to buy some guns and get some guards to protect it all.  If that's what al-Qaeda wanted they'd be easier to deal with.

[Berkut]

Shrugh. Like I said, I think we get the ratings we do on things like "human rights violations" because we don't distribute wealth in a satisfactory manner for those making lists like this. They are all tied up together. The particular rating that they massage to get the result they want isn't really all THAT interesting, except to illustrate how silly the entire thing is.

I think it is them blowing shit like Guantanamo and what Neil said out of proportion, as foreigners tend to do.

Yeah, but WHY do they do that? There is a chicken and egg thing here, I suppose, but my point is simply that their ratings are pretty clearly designed to draw distinctions between countries where there isn't any real or practical distinction.

When it comes to how "failed" a state is, there is no real difference between the US and Norway, or England and Australia, and suggesting that there is is just distracting from the real message.

[Valmy]

Well I do get rather tired of everybody saying the Skandinavian countries are the best in the universe.  I mean even Iceland is highly ranked and if our economy was in the shape theirs is we would ranked down there with Bolivia somewhere.

[Neil]

When it comes to how "failed" a state is, there is no real difference between the US and Norway, or England and Australia, and suggesting that there is is just distracting from the real message.

Actually, states with smaller numbers of criminal blacks are generally less failed.

[Sheilbh]

It's not foreign.  I think it's the same thing as the Foreign Policy failed state meter which just has a bit more nuance (the US and Oman are still equal):
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/06/22/2009_failed_states_index_interactive_map_and_rankings

[Sheilbh]

And the Fund for Peace aren't foreign either:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/06/22/2009_failed_states_index_faq_methodology

[Berkut]

Shelf, those aren't seperate ratings, they are the same ratings.

[Sheilbh]

And to put this into context here's the bottom (least failedest) 20 states.  It looks like more or less every global measure of something:
France
United States
Singapore
United Kingdom
Belgium
Portugal
Japan
Iceland
Canada
Luxembourg
Austria
Netherlands
Australia
New Zealand
Denmark
Ireland
Switzerland
Sweden
Finland
Norway

More amusingly Oman and several Latin American countries are ahead of Poland  

[Sheilbh]

Shelf, those aren't seperate ratings, they are the same ratings.

That's what I said:

I think it's the same thing as the Foreign Policy failed state meter which just has a bit more nuance (the US and Oman are still equal):

[Viking]

Do any of you know anything about Oman? Apart from me, has any of you actually been there? Or know anything apart from what you can find on Wikipeidia and the CIA world fact book?