What allies are supposed to do

[Zoupa]

Amateur spies wannabes try to sell US Navy nuclear submarine propulsion secrets to an ally of the US, very probably France.

France then informs the FBI. Fast forward a few months: AUKUS.

A Tale Of Two Countries.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/10/jonathan-diana-toebbe-spy-trial-espionage.html

[Jacob]

Fair play to France.

[Berkut]

That is a seriously shit article. The authors evidence that it was France is:

Finally, there is this bit from a letter Toebbe sent to his contact:

"Thank you for your partnership as well, my friend. One day, when it is safe, perhaps two old friends will have a chance to stumble into each other at a café, share a bottle of wine, and laugh over stories of their shared exploits. A fine thought, but I agree that our mutual need for security may make that impossible. Whether we meet or no, I will always remember your bravery in serving your country and your commitment to helping me."

Leaving aside for a moment the pitiful naïveté that this letter conveys in retrospect, where might the daydreaming Toebbe envision such a future run-in to take place? The wine, the café—it could be anywhere, but sounds a lot like a wannabe spy's vision of post-heist life in Paris.

Fair play? Please.

Could it have been France? I suppose. This article makes no serious claim that it is, and the only reason the author makes the claim is so he can then tortuously imagine that if France had gone along, why, they could have maybe saved that deal with Australia!

How does that make any fucking sense to anyone? Even you Zoupa?

Talk about a perfect example of total cognitive dissonance. That article is trash, and is obviously trash. I can't believe it fooled you two.

[Zoupa]

 

I love how you attack the messenger and the article instead of addressing the actual meat and potatoes of the story, while still managing to make yourself seem smart AND condescending.

I salute you. A true Languish post.

[grumbler]

Yeah, the article is shit.  The nation contacted is far more likely to be Israel, based on their long loyalty to Jonathon Pollard, who stole secrets for them in the 1980s, and whom the Israelis were constantly trying to get released from prison.  They paid Pollard very well while he worked for them, and welcomed Pollard when he finally was released.

I don't know of any equivalent French treatment of American traitors.  If I were going to betray the US to an ally for money, it would be Israel, just based on their good PR for treason.

[Berkut]

There is no meat or potatoes in that story.

Seriously, did you even read it?

[Berkut]

It really is amazing how if you tell some people something they want to be true, they will absolutely buy any kind of ridiculousness.

[grumbler]

Oh, and another reason to think it to be Israel:  France might be interested enough to go along, while Israel was still smarting from the spanking they took over Pollard.  The Israelis had self-interest reasons to give up Toebbe, but their evaluation of those interests would take time (and the ally didn't out Toebbe for seven months).  France wouldn't have taken seven months to decide.  They'd have outed Toebbe very quickly.

[Zoupa]

Here are 2 more articles, on from the Guardian, the other from Politico. They both suggest France.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/17/jonathan-diana-toebbe-west-virginia-couple-accused-spies

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/20/feds-maryland-couple-charged-selling-nuclear-secrets-516396

It really is amazing how if you tell some people something they want to be true, they will absolutely buy any kind of ridiculousness.

There there. You can't win them all Berky-poo.

[Jacob]

I thought I posted that I'm willing to add "... if it in fact was France" to my statement.

Maybe I posted that in a different thread?

[Zoupa]

Too late Jacob. You got fooled by the shit article, just like I did.

Just admit it and repent.

[Jacob]

Too late Jacob. You got fooled by the shit article, just like I did.

Just admit it and repent.

*gallic shrug* 

[grumbler]

Here are 2 more articles, on from the Guardian, the other from Politico. They both suggest France.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/17/jonathan-diana-toebbe-west-virginia-couple-accused-spies

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/20/feds-maryland-couple-charged-selling-nuclear-secrets-516396

It really is amazing how if you tell some people something they want to be true, they will absolutely buy any kind of ridiculousness.

There there. You can't win them all Berky-poo.

None of those reports provide even the slightest evidence that "country1" was France.  Interesting that they all ignore the elephant in the room.

[Zoupa]

I wrote "suggest", not "provide evidence". It might turn out to be Zimbabwe, that's not my point.

There are certain ways or etiquette that is generally agreed upon when dealing with allies or their military technology. This story was just a nice reminder of that.

[Berkut]

I wrote "suggest", not "provide evidence". It might turn out to be Zimbabwe, that's not my point.

There are certain ways or etiquette that is generally agreed upon when dealing with allies or their military technology. This story was just a nice reminder of that.

It added nothing to what we know about etiquette when dealing with allies, and instead just fed you some outrage which you lapped right up.

And indeed, France could definitely use some work on how they treat their allies, for sure. I don't think you really want to go down that in any kind of objective manner.

For example, they probably should not try to extort tens of billions from them and reneg on their contractual obligations so they can squeeze out of few more bucks from them. As an example.