Aukus

[Berkut]

What does France need to re-calibrate quickly, other then having to figure out how not to have $60 billion of Australias money?

Other then the financial loss, what actual effect does this actually have on France?

And how does whatever that is get served by them throwing a temper tantrum about it?

What is interesting in this debate is how the "poor France" side has NOTHING to say about the actual reason Australia wants a bunch of nuclear submarines in the first place. If Zoupa represents the standard French view towards this, then Australia should be thanking god they dodged that bullet. As far as France is concerned....apparently....there is nothing interesting about his entire episode that extends beyond France at all, and that just about the money.

Note that this deal has basically zero impact on the United States from a financial standpoint - at least, nothing substantial. The two US companies building Virginia class attack subs are absolutely maxed out. They are building them as fast as they can for USN consumption. So if the US provides any of them to Australia, it will be because the US is foregoing some of the planned boats for the USN instead - General Dynamics and Electric Boat are not going to get additional orders out of this, at least not for some 2-3 decades, if you assume they will extend the Virginia production run (this is even assuming it is Virginias at all!).

The US is doing this *because* it makes sense strategically. For the US, this is entirely about our actual allies and their actual threats, and how that aligns with US security interests.

[grumbler]

You had an issue with me talking about the Franco-Australian "strategic partnership" as an alliance - isn't there the same problem with AUKUS? It isn't a new alliance. At the moment, from my understanding the bit that's been agreed is the subs and some language around wider tech sharing. I think it will develop into more because of existing alliances and relationships but, it's not, from what I've read a new alliance in that sense. I think the same reasoning applies to the Franco-Australian alliance/"strategic partnership"

Except that AUKUS is an actual agreement between governments, while the Australian agreement to buy submarines (while it included an agreement by the French government to allow the sale) was between the Australian government and Naval Group.  AUKUS includes no agreements to buy submarines (not anything else).  It's an alliance to share technologies and take mutual action to support mutual interests.

A Franco-Australian strategic partnership is certainly possible in the absence of an Australian purchase of French submarines, but the French don't seem interested in that.

I think France is angry at Australia (the bride/groom?) - but to torture this metaphor a little more they're also annoyed at the best man and caterer because it turns out their now a throuple.

But, in this analogy, France is the mother of the caterer, not the bride.

[grumbler]

Groom punches bride to be at their wedding right before the vows, in front of everybody. Groom then winks at the maid of honor who happily steps into the bride's place. Groom turns around to former bride with a black eye, asking "Why are you mad, baby? I thought you loved me, don't you want me to be happy? Can you not cause a scene on my wedding day?"

Caterer announces that they've doubled prices from the contract amount.  Groom fires caterer.  Mother of caterer claims that she considered herself to the bride all along, and sues for custody of groom's children.

[Sheilbh]

I'd point out in the original catering analogy from Macron the US and/or the Australian was the chef, France was the disappointed customer and the UK was the dish-washer.

Given the recent reporting it feels like the UK is at least the sous-chef. But I'm not sure who everyone else is

[grumbler]

I'd point out in the original catering analogy from Macron the US and/or the Australian was the chef, France was the disappointed customer and the UK was the dish-washer.

Given the recent reporting it feels like the UK is at least the sous-chef. But I'm not sure who everyone else is

I think that we all understand that Macron's analogy was just frustrated shitposting, not an attempt to illuminate by analogy. 

[Admiral Yi]

Apologies for introducing that stream of chat

Don't lead us down the garden path again. 

[grumbler]

Apologies for introducing that stream of chat

Don't lead us down the garden path again. 

[viper37]

about the actual reason Australia wants a bunch of nuclear submarines in the first place.

they should have said so in the first place, if that's what they wanted.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'd point out in the original catering analogy from Macron the US and/or the Australian was the chef, France was the disappointed customer and the UK was the dish-washer.

Given the recent reporting it feels like the UK is at least the sous-chef. But I'm not sure who everyone else is

Because the analogy makes no sense.  Australia is the customer; France and the US are the competing catering companies, and the UK is a booking agent that favors the US catering company.  The customer hired France but then switched the day before the deposit became non-refundable.

The only problem with the reworked analogy is that no one would believe the Americans would provide better quality food for the event.

[Sheilbh]

I can only assume you've never met an Australian.

[HVC]

You put beans on your toast, they put sprinkles. I'm not sure who would win ina bad catering contest

[Sheilbh]

Pls give it the dignity it deserves, it's called fairy bread

[Eddie Teach]

French food is overrated.

[Valmy]

French food is overrated.

I mean it is pretty crazy in its variety. I am sure some of it is. There are hundreds of cheeses alone.

[Zoupa]

French food is overrated.