Post-covid economics: The great resignation, remote work, & musical chairs

[garbon]

And I'm not convinced it was better for work-life balance because - especially when pubs and night-life and restaurants and cinemas etc were closed - you could be nowhere else.

I cut this out because I really hope discussion on WFH can finally move away from discussion of lockdown. I have seen this happen a lot over the last 1.5 years - people looking at their life during lockdown and concluding WFH sucks.

My work life balance was way better. I didn't do the strange thing of feeling like I had to do and thus worked all the time. Still logged off at reasonable hours and rather than committing, had time to cook and eat dinner at a reasonable hour. In the morning could get up in a relaxing fashion as wasn't running to make the train. And also when had down time at work, didn't need to pretend to work or look at news but could get things done around the flat.

[Sheilbh]

Your gay is showing :p

Fair

But even the straights often spend a few years in the city to have fun/meet a partner before settling down elsewhere. It's just easier to meet people because there's more people.

I'm not sure this is so much the case in the UK. London is just so expensive and unpleasant if you're not rich that I don't think so many willingly go there given the choice as they did historically. At least assuming self-awareness which a lot of kids don't have.
Thinking of Berlin, London in the 80s, etc... however yes I know what you mean. And yeah. Good potential gains in London reclaiming its old place of buzzing alternative culture spot if those who are miserably forced to be there can now go home.

So the counter-point to this is that if there are also global digital nomads free-lancing in sort of corporate "creative" professions like graphic design, PR, marketing etc they may actually drive up prices. I know there's been a bit of resentment in Germany of the Shoreditch-Berlin track. But I heard people saying that Berlin is too corporate and expensive now, so the next Berlin is Kyiv or Tbilisi depending on who you listen to (and they're both great cities). So it may be both trends at once but faster (this would be my summary of post-covid economics generally ).

Yes, this is a problem.
Whilst I mentioned WFH potentially meaning big wins for equality in allowing people anywhere to get good professional level jobs, I've also heard it mooted that its a disaster for equality as it does really empower those with existing networks.
Another problem I hear mentioned a lot is what it means for all those minimum wage workers in business district sandwich shops et al- though I think these losses should be countered by new jobs being created in small towns that people otherwise fled for the city.
There really is a great opportunity for shared work spaces, cafes, etc... in some small towns.
But...then you've the problem of network effects being eliminated when you've 20 small towns with a pub each rather than a thriving pub area of a major city.

Yeah so one of the advantages in theory of being in a city is that all of these connected/semi-related industries rub up against each other (and often there's a research university, or a political centre, or a cultural centre which adds extra). I don't know if we're yet at the stage where the digital networks have replaced that and is able to make those connection. It's possible it has but I don't know. And I wonder if there will be a sort of opportunity loss from those connections v an organised/scheduled remote call.

[Habbaku]

And I'm not convinced it was better for work-life balance because - especially when pubs and night-life and restaurants and cinemas etc were closed - you could be nowhere else.

I cut this out because I really hope discussion on WFH can finally move away from discussion of lockdown. I have seen this happen a lot over the last 1.5 years - people looking at their life during lockdown and concluding WFH sucks.

My work life balance was way better. I didn't do the strange thing of feeling like I had to do and thus worked all the time. Still logged off at reasonable hours and rather than committing, had time to cook and eat dinner at a reasonable hour. In the morning could get up in a relaxing fashion as wasn't running to make the train. And also when had down time at work, didn't need to pretend to work or look at news but could get things done around the flat.

I loathe going into the office for all these reasons and more. Being able to work from home gives me at least an hour a day back to me.

[crazy canuck]

I think it is going to be important for young people to go to urban centres for the foreseeable future.  Both to get their career going and because of all the fun things you can do in an urban area.  I don't think that will change until head offices start migrating away from urban centres, and I don't really see that happening soon, if ever.  Getting face time so they are not just a name is critically important for them.  There may be some niche areas where that is not true - the example given above of minding a server where even if you were in the office no one would see you.  But for most pursuits getting to be known is vital for further advancement.  And there is a lot to do in a city.

[mongers]

.....

I'm not sure this is so much the case in the UK. London is just so expensive and unpleasant if you're not rich that I don't think so many willingly go there given the choice as they did historically. At least assuming self-awareness which a lot of kids don't have.
Thinking of Berlin, London in the 80s, etc... however yes I know what you mean. And yeah. Good potential gains in London reclaiming its old place of buzzing alternative culture spot if those who are miserably forced to be there can now go home.
.....

Well nearly everyone of my friends* have after graduating at some stage in their 20s/30s/early 40s lived and worked in London. It's almost a rite of passage here, around 90-120 miles from the city.

Plus plenty of other non-professional people whom I've worked with have also done that gig. I'd be surprised if that pattern has radically changed or stopped.

edit:
* I can think of just one guy, and arguable it would have done him a lot of good.

[Sheilbh]

https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-four-day-week-labor-market/

[Jacob]

A few video game companies seem to be moving towards 4-day weeks as well.

[Habbaku]

A few video game companies seem to be moving towards 4-day weeks as well.

So crunch is just 5 15-hour days instead of 6 12-hour days?

[Jacob]

A few video game companies seem to be moving towards 4-day weeks as well.

So crunch is just 5 15-hour days instead of 6 12-hour days?

I don't know, to be honest. I expect it'll be 4 days until crunch and then... who knows....

[Tamas]

And I'm not convinced it was better for work-life balance because - especially when pubs and night-life and restaurants and cinemas etc were closed - you could be nowhere else.

I cut this out because I really hope discussion on WFH can finally move away from discussion of lockdown. I have seen this happen a lot over the last 1.5 years - people looking at their life during lockdown and concluding WFH sucks.

My work life balance was way better. I didn't do the strange thing of feeling like I had to do and thus worked all the time. Still logged off at reasonable hours and rather than committing, had time to cook and eat dinner at a reasonable hour. In the morning could get up in a relaxing fashion as wasn't running to make the train. And also when had down time at work, didn't need to pretend to work or look at news but could get things done around the flat.

I loathe going into the office for all these reasons and more. Being able to work from home gives me at least an hour a day back to me.

I  missed these comments last month, but agree 100%, garbon's experience was the same as mine. WFH has been a major change for the better for me.

[Sheilbh]

Moved to going into the office 2 days a week now - and I like it

[HisMajestyBOB]

We started going back 3 days a week now. A colleague suspects, and I agree, that we'll be working in the office all 5 days next year. I'm starting to look for full time WFH jobs because I hate the commute.

[Syt]

Current plan is to go back to the office 3 days a week starting January (unless the Covid situation is too bad). Until then people go to the office as they see fit (most people only go in case of meetings). Since I work a 4 day week, I will likely go to the office all days.

We have one person in the office who's not vaccinated (well, two, but the second one will keep working from home for the time being due to other health concerns) and who keeps making excuses (the cousin of my friend's mother ... ), so we will see what our rules will be to protect this person. Currently we have the rule that you need to have done a valid Covid test before coming in, but since they're only good for one or two days .... don't really want to get tested twice a week for the privilege of going to the office.

[saskganesh]

Working at home often becomes living at work. It can easily become a bad relationship. I think the merits are overstated and much prefer a better seperation between work and play

That said, my commute was a lot easier when the ROTW was sitting on their chesterfields, looking at screens. When there is no traffic it's almost fun.

[saskganesh]

A lot of downtown service industries took a hit and will never reopen. But other businesses may replace them: I know of a least one Starbucks that was shuttered and replaced by a Spiritleaf.