When did the GOP start going to shit?

[Berkut]

I don't think anyone with the ability to think would argue that the modern GOP is anything other than an embarassing dumpster fire.


If you don't think that is the case, then this thread is not for you.


But the recent spat in the Biden thread kind of surprised me. As someone who used to support GOP candidates, I didn't even think it controversial to note that the foundations for the current disaster that has become modern conservatism was laid a long, long time ago. Trump is not some aberration out of an otherwise perfectly normal party. I mean...the second place guy was Ted Fucking Cruz, after all.


So if we can all agree that the end result is something outrageously shitty....where did it start?


I think if you go back far enough you can find a time where we can reasonably say was before...say...Eisenhower? I don't think anyone would argue that what the GOP has become today had anything to do with the GOP of the Eisenhower administration, as an example.


So where did it start?


I've always laid the groundwork for the rise of the Tea Party movement, the demonization of the Democrats, and that entire cesspool of right wing media around the Reagan years. That, to me, was when you first saw the ideological start of the idea that


1. Government is intrinsically evil and corrupt.
2. The left is godless, and hence invalid
3. Corporatism is itself good and moral
4. There is a culture war happening, not just a conflict


I think the eighties were the start of the entire corporate movement. Greed is good. Government just gets in the way - and not just passively so, but is actively evil and immoral. Cowboy individualism. Randian libertarianism on the rise. Any ideology that is not right wing conservative is by default communism. Trickle down economics as a matter of faith more than any kind of thought out policy. The beginnings of the rejection of science in favor of creationism, and the demand that this be taught in schools. Really the intensification of the culture tension into outright culture wars. The moral majority. Not much later we see Newt Gingrich and politicians making solemn vows to never, ever, ever raise taxes ever no matter what.


Full disclosure - I supported McCain. And he was WELL after this all started. I did not recognize it then - I thought his obviously pretend pro-life stance was just a political ploy. I thought Sarah Palin was a terrible mistake, but not really indicative of anything other then a terrible mistake. Now I look back and it's pretty obvious Palin was McCain trying to appeal to the whackadoodle fucking crazies that were starting to become a driving force on the right. I certainly did not, at that time, have any idea just how bad it would get. But I would not pretend now like looking back on it it was pretty damn clear that those things were not disconnected to where we are now - not at all.


So....what do other people think? How far back do you have to go before you can safely recognize that the rot that became todays GOP was not yet started?

[DGuller]

I think it started with Reagan as well.  It was a gradual progression, though, so just because it started then doesn't mean that it was obvious at the time what was going on.  It wasn't until the Obama years when GOP declared total war on Democrats and governance.

Incidentally, I think the root of all rot is race.  Reagan mobilized the right with the right code words, and made up stories about welfare queens, and Obama mobilized the right further by being black.  There is still a lot of unresolved racial tension in the country (not made easier by the fact that honest discussion of it is highly discouraged), so there is plenty of fuel to tap into by a sociopathic enough politician.

[Monoriu]

I am obviously an outsider so there are a lot of things that I don't understand.

I support the free market, low taxes, small government and all that, so I easily identify with the US Republican Party.

But still, to me, the US Republican Party is, for lack of a better word, crazy.  They supported an obviously unfit and incompetent man like Trump.  They refused to take reasonable action against gun violence and COVID19.  They refuse to accept the 2020 election results.  They refuse to accept basic scientific facts like global warming. 

I mean this goes well beyond policy differences.  You can disagree all you like about what to do about gun violence, COVID 19 and global warming.  But you just can't deny some very fundamental scientific facts.  They have failed their most fundamental responsibilities as politicians to take care of the country on behalf of the public. 

[Berkut]

I think it started with Reagan as well.  It was a gradual progression, though, so just because it started then doesn't mean that it was obvious at the time what was going on.  It wasn't until the Obama years when GOP declared total war on Democrats and governance.

Incidentally, I think the root of all rot is race.  Reagan mobilized the right with the right code words, and made up stories about welfare queens, and Obama mobilized the right further by being black.  There is still a lot of unresolved racial tension in the country (not made easier by the fact that honest discussion of it is highly discouraged), so there is plenty of fuel to tap into by a sociopathic enough politician.

I agree - like I said, if you resurrected Reagan, I think he would be fucking appalled at what his party has become.

That doesn't mean you can't trace the history of the GOP back to Reagan, and see how one thing led to another led to another led to another...

[ulmont]

That doesn't mean you can't trace the history of the GOP back to Reagan, and see how one thing led to another led to another led to another...

I disagree.  Goldwater's Southern Strategy (embraced by Nixon in 1968) is the beginning of the corruption, where the Republican party knowingly embraced white nationalism and abandoned the self-evident truth the country was founded on* that all men** are created equal.  Once you start doing the politically expedient thing to win rather than the right thing, all else is just details.

*Subject to terms and conditions, of course.
**I recognize the irony.

Much more here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/07/26/what-we-get-wrong-about-southern-strategy/

[DGuller]

It still irks me how pivotal those fucking butterfly ballots in Florida were to the fate of the country.  Truly a butterfly flapping its wings moment in history if there ever was one.

[ulmont]

It still irks me how pivotal those fucking butterfly ballots in Florida were to the fate of the country.  Truly a butterfly flapping its wings moment in history if there ever was one.

...the Comey letter was another butterfly...

[DGuller]

It still irks me how pivotal those fucking butterfly ballots in Florida were to the fate of the country.  Truly a butterfly flapping its wings moment in history if there ever was one.

...the Comey letter was another butterfly...

Or is that idiot who forgot the "not" in his e-mail to Podesta.

[Monoriu]

It still irks me how pivotal those fucking butterfly ballots in Florida were to the fate of the country.  Truly a butterfly flapping its wings moment in history if there ever was one.

I thought the death of Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo was a bigger moment. 

[Eddie Teach]

The Great War was inevitable.

[Jacob]

It still irks me how pivotal those fucking butterfly ballots in Florida were to the fate of the country.  Truly a butterfly flapping its wings moment in history if there ever was one.

I thought the death of Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo was a bigger moment.

To the fate of the US?

[Barrister]

I don't think anyone with the ability to think would argue that the modern GOP is anything other than an embarassing dumpster fire.


If you don't think that is the case, then this thread is not for you.


But the recent spat in the Biden thread kind of surprised me. As someone who used to support GOP candidates, I didn't even think it controversial to note that the foundations for the current disaster that has become modern conservatism was laid a long, long time ago. Trump is not some aberration out of an otherwise perfectly normal party. I mean...the second place guy was Ted Fucking Cruz, after all.


So if we can all agree that the end result is something outrageously shitty....where did it start?


I think if you go back far enough you can find a time where we can reasonably say was before...say...Eisenhower? I don't think anyone would argue that what the GOP has become today had anything to do with the GOP of the Eisenhower administration, as an example.


So where did it start?

Clearly it's all Lincoln's fault.

[Monoriu]

It still irks me how pivotal those fucking butterfly ballots in Florida were to the fate of the country.  Truly a butterfly flapping its wings moment in history if there ever was one.

I thought the death of Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo was a bigger moment.

To the fate of the US?

The Great War is a pretty big event for the US. 

[The Minsky Moment]

Clearly it's all Lincoln's fault.

Stop letting the Whig Party off the hook.
The rot starts with Henry Clay.

[Valmy]

I support the free market, low taxes, small government and all that, so I easily identify with the US Republican Party.

I support most of those things as well. The only one they still seem to like is low taxes, but unsustainable reckless low taxes.

It is the cultural stuff and religious nuttery that makes them toxic, and it is the thing conservatives from other countries get most confused by I think.

The late 90s was when I became disillusioned, and I jumped all the way off the bus at the Bush tax cut in 2001. Now, granted, nothing inherently wrong with cutting taxes but we had just balanced the budget after decades of struggling and they blew it up...then started spending like crazy people. And then reckless actions internationally. It was almost like Dubya and his people couldn't destroy the United States domestically and internationally fast enough. And sad to say it has just gone downhill from there.

People who I theoretically should roughly agree with since I still like lots of conservative ideas I can barely talk to because their grasp on reality is so tenuous. It is hard to find any issue where we agree on even the basic facts, much less solutions.