Refractory Gauls, or the French politics thread

[Duque de Bragança]

Xavier Bertrand is threatened by internecine quarrels in his party, a specialty of the French right, once described as "la droite la plus bête du monde" (silliest right in the world).
Ambitions, egos etc.

[The Minsky Moment]

Do you really think for Jordan Barella, young RN IdF candidate or Marine Le Pen, the royalist Action Française matters that much nowadays?

I think Marine's move to a big tent of the right is genuine, but the fascists have always been skulking around in that tent and still are.

[Duque de Bragança]

Do you really think for Jordan Barella, young RN IdF candidate or Marine Le Pen, the royalist Action Française matters that much nowadays?

I think Marine's move to a big tent of the right is genuine, but the fascists have always been skulking around in that tent and still are.

Big tent of the right yes but including some old-guard left-wing sovereignists. Some chevènementistes for the ones interested in French politics of some time ago.

I would say following the (former chevènementiste) Phillipot's departure to create a new party, and his subsequent failure, anti-EU sovereignism has actually decreased, leaving Frexit and quitting the Euro for fringe formations.

For the Action française, RN is republican anyways. so that's a no.

The one possible convergence between RN and both the old (French extreme-right)and new anti-semitism (banlieue islamists) has been severed with the end of the direct Soral/Dieudonné influence in the party.

Le Pen father is godfather of one the daughters of Dieudonné, this is no coincidence.

[Sheilbh]

Being noted over here that Michel Barnier's (doomed) run for President as candidate of the centre-right is striking quite a lot of Brexity notes

In particular he's made proposals about free movement that are roughly the same as David Cameron's aims in the renegotiation. Now he's also said France must reclaim its "legal sovereignty" from decisions of the CJEU and ECHR. He also proposes a referendum on all non-EU immigration in September (he has previously called for a "pause" to all non-EU immigration).

The legal sovereignty point is something that should worry the EU because it is fighting that battle around supremacy on several fronts, with different member states. It's being challenged by at least Germany, Poland and France right now (it's striking the different issues causing problems: Germany - common debt/ECB; Poland - rule of law issues; France - bulk interception/mass surveillance/national security). I think the Economist column was right that Europe faces these twin moments which I think are both very important: on the one hand the long talked about "Hamiltonian" moment in the covid recovery fund (especially if similar process could be used for energy transition - and it should be); on the other a Calhounian moment, with a nullification crisis of who gets to decide the meaning and content of EU law.

I think I said at the time of German ruling - I think it was wrong and beyond their powers as a court within the EU. But we sort of tolerate little bits of over-reach from the German Constitutional Court (which it does a lot in the realm of EU law - as I say the UK v German interpretation of the supremacy of EU law as explained to me in law school are very different) because they are good judges and we trust that court. It applies a lot less when it's a packed constitutional court in Poland but it has the same formal position and rights (I'd proabbly argue the same for most couts, like the French, ruling on national security because they tend to defer to the execuitve on those issues). And if you're not convinced that all the judges across all member states will behave with similar probity and principle as the German Constitutional Court, then it's really important to make the formal rules strict and apply even there.

[Duque de Bragança]

First time I hear about a run by Michel Barnier. 

Seems souverainist, but nothing Zemmour or even Marine would disagree with, unlike Zupiter.

[Sheilbh]

He has no chance, bless.

And given the polling it feels like it'd be crazy for the centre right to go for anyone but Bertrand. At least at this stage.

[Josquius]

Ah yes. Assuming the far right are acting in good faith with their demands. Always a critical error.

[Duque de Bragança]

Ah yes. Assuming the far right are acting in good faith with their demands. Always a critical error.

Makes Macron a member of the far-right I guess. 

[Valmy]

Ah yes. Assuming the far right are acting in good faith with their demands. Always a critical error.

Makes Macron a member of the far-right I guess. 

Politicians are different otherwise every party would be far-right.

I think Tyr is talking about the actual members.

[Duque de Bragança]

Ah yes. Assuming the far right are acting in good faith with their demands. Always a critical error.

Makes Macron a member of the far-right I guess. 

Politicians are different otherwise every party would be far-right.

I think Tyr is talking about the actual members.

Still not just actual members of the far-right.

[Valmy]

Still not just actual members of the far-right.

True but you are putting in commentary that is not there. Tyr is not saying ONLY the Far-Right doesn't act in good faith, just that they are notorious for it.

[Duque de Bragança]

Still not just actual members of the far-right.

True but you are putting in commentary that is not there. Tyr is not saying ONLY the Far-Right doesn't act in good faith, just that they are notorious for it.

Given Tyr's well known bias, that does not seem a stretch. 

[Sheilbh]

Politicians are different otherwise every party would be far-right.

I'd carve out the US because reasons, but I think most politicians most of the time are acting in good faith, but to govern is to choose.

[Duque de Bragança]

Politicians are different otherwise every party would be far-right.

I'd carve out the US because reasons, but I think most politicians most of the time are acting in good faith, but to govern is to choose.

This is French politics remember:

Gouverner c'est prévoir.

[Valmy]

Still not just actual members of the far-right.

True but you are putting in commentary that is not there. Tyr is not saying ONLY the Far-Right doesn't act in good faith, just that they are notorious for it.

Given Tyr's well known bias, that does not seem a stretch. 

Well that's true