80th anniversary of Operation Barbarossa

[Duque de Bragança]

I like German documentaries when they say "Die Deutsche Wehrmacht" for emphasis; I can think of no other Wehrmacht.

I think that's the point, though... Wehrmact just means "armed forces". So every country with armed forces have a Werhmacht in German.

Wehrmacht means Defense Power or Force. The word Armee exists as well in German (cf. Nationale Volksarmee for the GDR forces) or Streitkräfte (Armed Forces).

[Jacob]

Wehrmacht means Defense Power or Force. The word Armee exists as well in German (cf. Nationale Volksarmee for the GDR forces) or Streitkräfte (Armed Forces).

Sure. But does the term Wehrmacht apply uniquely to the German armed forces or can it describe the armed forces of other countries?

[Tamas]

I've always wondered if there is a bit of German fanboi-ism in that we alway say "Wehrmacht" and "Luftwaffe" instead of the just the German "armed forces" or "air forces"...I mean, we don't go around saying the "Krasnaya Armiya" or the "Voenniy Vozdushniy Sil", or the "Forces armées françaises".

But maybe not fanboi-ism...just that Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe give it a nice menacing alien/enemy sound to it, suitable to WW2-era propaganda.

Yes there is.

[Sheilbh]

The comments in the article were interesting and they do acknowledge this but I feel there may be a bit too much focus on Germany-Russia which is only part of it since the Soviet collapse. I don't think it's quite right to sort of make Russia synecdoche for the USSR given the catastrophe for Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states etc.

Obviously how to remember WW2 in those states is particularly challenging/contentious but I feel it's better to engage with that.

[Admiral Yi]

I've always wondered if there is a bit of German fanboi-ism in that we alway say "Wehrmacht" and "Luftwaffe" instead of the just the German "armed forces" or "air forces"...I mean, we don't go around saying the "Krasnaya Armiya" or the "Voenniy Vozdushniy Sil", or the "Forces armées françaises".

But maybe not fanboi-ism...just that Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe give it a nice menacing alien/enemy sound to it, suitable to WW2-era propaganda.

I agree.  Same way panzer sounds more menacing than tank.

[Duque de Bragança]

Wehrmacht means Defense Power or Force. The word Armee exists as well in German (cf. Nationale Volksarmee for the GDR forces) or Streitkräfte (Armed Forces).

Sure. But does the term Wehrmacht apply uniquely to the German armed forces or can it describe the armed forces of other countries?

Only German armed forces during WW2. Name given by Hitler AFAIK.

[The Brain]

What did poor Frederick I do to deserve being associated with this?  It would have been more appropriate if they attacked Mussolini.

Barbarossa = red beard. Stalin had a mustache, and red is the color of communism.

(Disclaimer: I just made this up, I have no idea.)

The name was actually picked due to the similarities between the German assault on the Soviet Union and 16th century Ottoman naval operations.

[The Brain]

I've always wondered if there is a bit of German fanboi-ism in that we alway say "Wehrmacht" and "Luftwaffe" instead of the just the German "armed forces" or "air forces"...I mean, we don't go around saying the "Krasnaya Armiya" or the "Voenniy Vozdushniy Sil", or the "Forces armées françaises".

But maybe not fanboi-ism...just that Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe give it a nice menacing alien/enemy sound to it, suitable to WW2-era propaganda.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if military organizations/units/similar that are perceived to be successful/badass are more likely to keep their local name in an international context. Napoleon has his Grande Armée, Italy has bersaglieri, Japan has samurai, the Soviet Union/Russia has Spetznas, Nazi Germany has Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe (the Kriegsmarine isn't quite as cool I guess), the UK has the Royal Air Force (which often gets called just that in Sweden while many other countries' air forces are called the Country X Air Force but in Swedish) etc.

[Zanza]

Today the term Wehrmacht only refers to the German armed forces between 1933 and 1945, but until the 1960s or so it was a generic term for armed forces. Luftwaffe is a generic term and used for foreign air forces.

[Admiral Yi]

Another one is flak.  More ominous than antiaircraft.

[Zanza]

The comments in the article were interesting and they do acknowledge this but I feel there may be a bit too much focus on Germany-Russia which is only part of it since the Soviet collapse. I don't think it's quite right to sort of make Russia synecdoche for the USSR given the catastrophe for Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states etc.

Obviously how to remember WW2 in those states is particularly challenging/contentious but I feel it's better to engage with that.

Russia and the Soviet Union were always used interchangeably in German. Operation Barbarossa for example was also called "Russian campaign". It is similar to how England and the UK or Holland and the Netherlands are not really distinguished in colloquial language.

[grumbler]

Nit:  the German Army was Das Heer, not "the Wehrmacht."  The Wehrmacht was the entire armed forces of Germany (but didn't include the armed forces of the Nazi Party).

Nit back at ya: the German Army was Deutsches Heer, not Das Heer which simply translates as "the army".

  The army was referred to as Das Heer, or "the army."  The "Deutsches" term could be used to refer to just the German army, or Navy, or Armed Forces (Deutsches Wehrmacht) when there was doubt about which army or navy or armed forces was being referred to (Germans would refer to the Britische Wehrmacht to distinguish it from the German one, but this was almost never done by Germans for the German army or navy or air force, just like the member of the US Army just say they are "in the army" not "in the United States Army").

In other words, if you are going to insist on adding Deutsches to Heer, you also need to do it for Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine, etc.

[grumbler]

I've always wondered if there is a bit of German fanboi-ism in that we alway say "Wehrmacht" and "Luftwaffe" instead of the just the German "armed forces" or "air forces"...I mean, we don't go around saying the "Krasnaya Armiya" or the "Voenniy Vozdushniy Sil", or the "Forces armées françaises".

But maybe not fanboi-ism...just that Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe give it a nice menacing alien/enemy sound to it, suitable to WW2-era propaganda.

I dunno.  I've heard people refer to the "German Army" but almost never the "British navy."  It's always "the "Royal Navy."  I do run across VVS about as often in historical writing as "Russian Air Force."

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I just think it's slightly problematic now that there is a Russia distinct from the Soviet Union - especially given the way memory and commemoration is used (particularly by Russia). I think it's important to also remember and acknowledge the (worse affected) successor states like the Baltics, Belarus and Ukraine - simply because they were on the way to Russia and then on the way to Berlin.

[grumbler]

The name was actually picked due to the similarities between the German assault on the Soviet Union and 16th century Ottoman naval operations.

Both employed Incan Torpedo Boats?