News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Victoria 3

Started by Syt, May 21, 2021, 01:46:04 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

crazy canuck

The other thing is that voting rights are not the only kind of political power in the game. There is a game mechanism called clout which is exercised by the interest groups in the game.  It changes over time depending on the decisions you make and the laws you enact.

It is possible, especially if you go the traditionalist authoritarian route, to have an army faction that has a lot of clout.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

Tamas

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 06, 2022, 09:40:03 AMThe other thing is that voting rights are not the only kind of political power in the game. There is a game mechanism called clout which is exercised by the interest groups in the game.  It changes over time depending on the decisions you make and the laws you enact.

It is possible, especially if you go the traditionalist authoritarian route, to have an army faction that has a lot of clout.

Good point. Voting rights and results matter, but that's because their effect on Clout. It's Clout that you are supposed to (and have to) worry about and manipulate. Voting rights is just one of the tools for that.

Tamas

Quote from: Tamas on November 06, 2022, 07:06:57 AMYep, luckily they are testing changes where the more progressive citizenship laws make primary cultures more unhappy.


I am trying a set of modifications for myself such as:
  • Multiculturalism linked to a non-researchable tech I added, and made the USA start with it - multiculturalism just feels way off in this time period, but flat-out deleting it would mess with a bunch of references to it elsewhere, plus I wanted to leave it available for the US, not that it makes much more sense there.
  • locked racial and cultural segregation behind the pan-nationalism tech, mainly to slow down their enactment across the world a bit
  • increased minimum assimilation numbers both for culture and religion to try help with late game performance - it's not really helping, but according to the devs the issue isn't with tiny mini-pops after all, but with myriad of dependent pops created in the background and then withering to zero eventually. Hopefully the fix will be out soon.
  • increased AI weight on resources their buildings need and are not being produced - I MIGHT be seeing that improve the Opium situation, although not dramatically. Will see what happens when I get to oil being needed
  • I have tweaked peace-preference scores for the AI, slightly increasing white peace willingness and weight of devastation and turmoil, and significantly reducing the positive effect of gold reserves (they are still one of the key numbers but not outweighing much everything else)
  • Made violate sovereignty more readily available (unavailable only on best -warm- relations), doesn't seem to make the AI any more ready to use it, unfortunately
  • Treaty port diplomatic play can only be launched by recognized countries against uncreognized ones. Sadly the wargoal is still freely available as a secondary wargoal as I haven't been able to find where to remove that
  • French treaty port at Pondycherry removed altogether and handed to the EIC - I read that the free access to the British market greatly contributes to the French juggernaut - well, by the late 1880s they are still massively ahead in GDP of everyone but China, but in overall score they are in competition with UK so that's an improvement I guess

EDIT: I have also added claims of Italy on the Austrian provinces in Italy but it doesn't seem to have any effect on the AI. Quite possibly because Two Sicilies are chums with Austria and Piedmont is so bloody weak that its always Sicilies uniting Italy.

EDIT #2: and I forgot that I increased research costs across the board by 1/3rd :D


This is how the leaderboard and the world looks like with those changes in 1902:


Syt

#633
One thing I hope they sort out is the global production of certain goods.

Some products (usually furniture, glass, clothing and similar) are almost always high priced. And if you expand your production capabilities for those it usually doesn't move the needle on the price, because there's a good chance that the extra production goes into exports.

Example: I have 10.5k sell orders and 14.9k buy orders for glass.

The sell orders are 6.21k import and 4.37k local propduction (I've recently expanded production again).

The buy orders are pop needs (5.62), urban centers (2.99), construction Sector (1.47), food industries (0.526). And I export 4.37k.

Yes, I have a shortfall of about 4.4k, which is incidentally exactly what I produce, which is exactly how much I export ... (not to mention the trade is circular between me and three other countries ... ).

In clothes, I'm missing 5k for my buy orders, but I'm exporting 7k. Steel I'm 5k short while exporting 4k. Opium I'm 2k short and export 3.5k (and it's the main reason I can't upgrade my first aid PM for my army ... ). Etc.

I'm on protectionism, and I'm having extra tariffs on these products to protect local supply.

Now, the solution at the moment is to embargo the big buyers of such products. The better solution is that they start building their own industries. :P 

Still, it would be nice if it was easier to better protect strategic goods. E.g. allow me to purchase a stockpile of strategic goods at market price before they go to export (and maybe let me re-sell it to my people at subsidized prices) under certain laws (maybe also incur an authority or influence or bureaucracy cost per good/amount so you can't do it for all goods).

P.S.: I like that there can be situations where your local producers find it more profitable to export their products rather than selling them locally, but it seems to happen all the time at the moment. :P
If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Tamas

Yeah, I have been supplying the industrialisation of Russia, mainly with Tools.  :D I am sure my factory workers and owners are making bank but yes at least in part this must be due to the AI not building enough factories. Italy was also syphoning up a lot of my iron production until I embargoed them.

That AI mod I mentioned is supposed to be pretty good with the economy (it's dynamic though, just a scripted build order so I am sceptical about it) but it's killing game speed so I'll wait for the performance fix patch before running proper games with it.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2022, 12:24:00 PMOne thing I hope they sort out is the global production of certain goods.

Some products (usually furniture, glass, clothing and similar) are almost always high priced. And if you expand your production capabilities for those it usually doesn't move the needle on the price, because there's a good chance that the extra production goes into exports.

Playing as isolationist Japan I'm noticing the same issue for clothing and furniture. So its not just a trade issue.  Probably due to the fact that these are consumer goods whose demand is very responsive to income and wealth growth.  You can build more production but if you are growing GDP it is constantly walking up the down escalator.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Syt

Another issue tied into it is that a lot of base good production initially comes from subsistence farfms who also produce furniture, clothing etc. So when you convert them to factory workers you remove some production to replace it with other production, plus your factory workers will now have more demand for things, because they have more money. Still, I'm not sure if that's contributing much to the issue.
If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Syt

Quote from: Tamas on November 06, 2022, 01:55:23 PMYeah, I have been supplying the industrialisation of Russia, mainly with Tools.  :D I am sure my factory workers and owners are making bank but yes at least in part this must be due to the AI not building enough factories. Italy was also syphoning up a lot of my iron production until I embargoed them.

That AI mod I mentioned is supposed to be pretty good with the economy (it's dynamic though, just a scripted build order so I am sceptical about it) but it's killing game speed so I'll wait for the performance fix patch before running proper games with it.

From what I see on the Paradox forums, the mod seems to help big powers, but since it's railroading the AI into always choosing the best production methods, regardless of whether or not they can afford them, it seems to screw over small countries the world over, with their local populations collapsing and migrating elsewhere.

See the thread here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/im-using-anbeelds-revision-of-ai-mod-it-greatly-improves-the-economical-ai.1555414/
If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Tamas

Quote from: Syt on November 06, 2022, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 06, 2022, 01:55:23 PMYeah, I have been supplying the industrialisation of Russia, mainly with Tools.  :D I am sure my factory workers and owners are making bank but yes at least in part this must be due to the AI not building enough factories. Italy was also syphoning up a lot of my iron production until I embargoed them.

That AI mod I mentioned is supposed to be pretty good with the economy (it's dynamic though, just a scripted build order so I am sceptical about it) but it's killing game speed so I'll wait for the performance fix patch before running proper games with it.

From what I see on the Paradox forums, the mod seems to help big powers, but since it's railroading the AI into always choosing the best production methods, regardless of whether or not they can afford them, it seems to screw over small countries the world over, with their local populations collapsing and migrating elsewhere.

See the thread here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/im-using-anbeelds-revision-of-ai-mod-it-greatly-improves-the-economical-ai.1555414/

Interesting. Also regarding best production methods - I was noticing with Austria that perhaps I don't always want to do that? Especially when I have a massive population and I am still trying to raise people out of subsistence farming, why would I want to destroy low-skill jobs with more automatisation?

So yeah thanks for the heads-up, going to pass on this mod then.

Tamas

#639
Not to jump to conclusions but I think my increasing of min. pop numbers allowed to migrate and assimilate may have improved performance. First time I am reaching 1920s and I am still as fast at speed 5 than 1907-ish with vanilla.

I have raised MIGRATION_MIN_POP_AMOUNT to 300, MIN_ASSIMILATION and MIN_CONVERSION to 100 each in the defines file.

EDIT: I have measured, doing a month in 22 seconds, in my last vanilla measurement as Sweden in 1907 it was 23 seconds :D

Syt

Quote from: Tamas on November 06, 2022, 04:40:40 PMInteresting. Also regarding best production methods - I was noticing with Austria that perhaps I don't always want to do that? Especially when I have a massive population and I am still trying to raise people out of subsistence farming, why would I want to destroy low-skill jobs with more automatisation?

Indeed. In the early game you'll mostly be balancing how many people you make unemployed when you switch production. But. Switching over often means more need for other resources - e.g. coal, which is where the unemployed may find new jobs, if it's in the same state. And in some very developed states you may find you've run out of bodies to put into jobs, eventually.

And later, when you get to electricity, telephones, radios and anything needing oil it becomes a delicate balancing act. Can I switch my administration over to telephones? All of them? Some? Same with any military units needing radios, from infantry squads to dreadnoughts and battleships. Not to mention all kinds of production methods that require electricity.
If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Syt

Quote from: Tamas on November 06, 2022, 04:48:22 PMNot to jump to conclusions but I think my increasing of min. pop numbers allowed to migrate and assimilate may have improved performance. First time I am reaching 1920s and I am still as fast at speed 5 than 1907-ish with vanilla.

I have raised MIGRATION_MIN_POP_AMOUNT to 300, MIN_ASSIMILATION and MIN_CONVERSION to 100 each in the defines file.

EDIT: I have measured, doing a month in 22 seconds, in my last vanilla measurement as Sweden in 1907 it was 23 seconds :D

My France game chugs the worst of all games I've played so far. My Austria-Hungary and Argentina games which ran till 1936 ran quite well, even towards the end.

With France, and a large colonial empire in Africa, it's now taking me 15-20 seconds to get through a week in 1890s.  :ph34r:

That's on an i9-10900 with 32 GB RAM and an RTX 3080.
If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Syt

Btw, I think native uprisings are still OP for the player. A victory should give a few provinces, maybe, not the entire country. Have all fighting limited to the original frontline (otherwise it looks like you take the whole country and then are pushed back to original lines).
If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Tamas on November 06, 2022, 04:40:40 PMInteresting. Also regarding best production methods - I was noticing with Austria that perhaps I don't always want to do that? Especially when I have a massive population and I am still trying to raise people out of subsistence farming, why would I want to destroy low-skill jobs with more automatisation?

International competitiveness.  If you are going to lag in PMs better keep those tariffs up.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

crazy canuck

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 07, 2022, 11:37:44 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 06, 2022, 04:40:40 PMInteresting. Also regarding best production methods - I was noticing with Austria that perhaps I don't always want to do that? Especially when I have a massive population and I am still trying to raise people out of subsistence farming, why would I want to destroy low-skill jobs with more automatisation?

International competitiveness.  If you are going to lag in PMs better keep those tariffs up.

Yes, plus with increased productivity of general goods, you can specialize production in some of the buildings without creating a supply strain for the general goods.

Tamas, think about making the changes to buildings on the state level, and implement them slowly if you are concerned about the impact of a complete change.  In that menu you could also select the specialization for the buildings you have upgraded.

Or, if playing a nation like France, you can upgrade everything easily so you can just do a general upgrade from the buildings tab for the nation, and then go to the state level to specialize as you like.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.