Property prices thread

[Josquius]

The place I rented in the UK is back on the market, and half the rent I pay now...

Any of our resident Brits know a nice lass that take on a retired-young Yank in a couple year's time? 

If you're looking for somewhere to flee as the US crumbles you're looking at the wrong place.

[Richard Hakluyt]

We'll see, in a couple of years time we should have sacked the current government 

[Josquius]

We'll see, in a couple of years time we should have sacked the current government 

Even with labour winning the next election I do fear the UK is set for damage limitation at best for the next decade or two.

[Sheilbh]

I've mentioned before that Ireland, somehow, has an even more broken housing market than the UK - another piece on that:

Majority of Irish renters receiving state housing benefits
Patrick O'Donoghue
Thursday May 26 2022, 12.01am, The Times
Dublin
Ireland

More than half of renters are receiving state support towards their housing costs, a study has found.

The ESRI found that almost 300,000 households received state support for their rental costs in 2020, up from 135,000 in 1994. This amounted to 54 per cent of all renters and 16 per cent of the total number of households.

Barra Roantree, an economist at the ESRI and one of the authors of the report, said the increase reflected a "resurgence" in renting and a shift away from home ownership since the early 1990s.

Roantree said that it was "tricky" to compare Ireland's level of support for renters with that of other European countries.

"The way Ireland provides its support to renters is quite different from other countries," he said. "Most other countries would have a more established social housing sector. While ours is growing, we have historically differed [from Europe] in how we provide that support."

Comparable figures were difficult to source as the housing sectors of other countries differed from Ireland's, he said.

"Ireland might look like a lot more households receive support for rental costs but then, in other countries, they will have much more affordable renting. Part of that is because the private sector isn't as much of a thing there," he said.

The study also found that many low-income households faced high rent-to-income ratios, yet did not receive state support for their rental costs. However, almost one in five of renters in receipt of state support were in the top half of the income distribution.

Roantree said this trend was creating an "insider-outsider" dynamic in housing support. Renters who have experienced income-growth since they first applied for state support continued to be eligible for subsidies, he said.

"You need to have relatively low-income when you apply for social housing, but if your income then changes, you're not evicted from local authority housing, nor should you be. Whereas, about one third of those renting in the bottom half of the income distribution, don't get any support for housing costs," he said.

The report found that the share of households eligible for housing support had declined by nearly 13 per cent between 2011 and 2019. It also found that the maximum rent allowed for single adults claiming housing assistance payment (HAP) only covered 6 per cent of one-bedroom tenancies across Dublin.

"The consequence of that is either they can't afford to get somewhere under HAP or that they have to pay a big, big top-up," Roantree said. "They [HAP rates] were set in 2017 and haven't been increased since."

Variation across local authorities in the contributions they make to identical households' rental costs were also revealed by the study.

A lone parent with two children earning €25,000 per year would pay a contribution to their rent of just €226 per month in south Dublin county council, while the same household would pay €313 per month in Donegal but €450 per month in Meath, the report found.

Cian O'Callaghan, housing spokesman for the Social Democrats, said the study's findings were clear evidence of the unaffordability of rental costs. He said renters were spending increasing amounts of their income on meeting their basic housing needs and that families in the rental sector were "under huge pressure".

"The state now spends in excess of €1 billion a year on subsidies that go to private landlords and investment funds through HAP, rent supplement, RAS (Rental Accommodation Scheme) and long-term leasing payments. This is more than €1 billion of public money that is inflating and driving up rents," he said.

The public money spent on providing these payments would be better invested in creating additional supply of cost-rental homes, he said.

"This would give households that are struggling in the private rented sector a secure, affordable and long-term housing option," he added.

The Department of Housing did not respond to a request for comment on the findings of the study.

[Josquius]

Saw an economist article the other day arguing for the Japanese approach in the UK

Ie basically a return to victorian style do what you want. Only without Britain Inc to keep companies from being too horrible

[Sheilbh]

Fully behind that

The contrast of prices to income in Japan v UK, Ireland and heavily zoned US cities like San Francisco has swayed me.

I'd have environmental and building standards but as long as you meet them, do whatever you want. I might have some conservation areas within cities and towns plus things like areas of natural beauty - but otherwise a free for all.

[Josquius]

Fully behind that

The contrast of prices to income in Japan v UK, Ireland and heavily zoned US cities like San Francisco has swayed me.

I'd have environmental and building standards but as long as you meet them, do whatever you want. I might have some conservation areas within cities and towns plus things like areas of natural beauty - but otherwise a free for all.

I challenge you to spend time in Japan and have the same view.
The donut effect and urban sprawl are so key to the nations problems.

[Razgovory]

The bank sells my house today.  That seems property price related.

[Tamas]

If its my property I should be able to build whatever the heck I want as long as its safe.

[Tamas]

The bank sells my house today.  That seems property price related.

sorry Raz, this must be terrible.

[Josquius]

If its my property I should be able to build whatever the heck I want as long as its safe.

To some extent you can.
The trouble is safe isn't a binary and it's very debatable where the line lies.

Where this doesn't apply is if you'll be wrecking someone else's home with your development. Say building a tower block and blocking somebody else's light.

[Razgovory]

The bank sells my house today.  That seems property price related.

sorry Raz, this must be terrible.

I go looking for apartments today.  There's nothing in my town so I'm moving to a larger nearby town.  It may yet turn out for the better.

[crazy canuck]

If its my property I should be able to build whatever the heck I want as long as its safe.

Are you becoming a free man on the land?

[Josquius]

New in the I will believe it when I see it files-

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-house-prices-beginning-end-050001846.html

[Tamas]

New in the I will believe it when I see it files-

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-house-prices-beginning-end-050001846.html

I admit that it's an open question whether there will be meaningful fall in property prices, but the rise of them must be coming to an end, for most of this year, at the very least. I can't see how the upward momentum could be kept unless by significant state subsidies.