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Italian Politics

Started by Sheilbh, February 10, 2021, 08:54:57 AM

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The Larch

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 11, 2021, 08:44:29 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 11, 2021, 08:32:24 AM
Thing is, the President of Italy needs to be elected by two-thirds of the joint parliament+senate+regional representatives electoral college, so it needs to be an uncontroversial figure of consensus. Berlusconi will never be that.
Fair point - although I wonder if there were an election in the next 4 months. I think that would be under the new smaller Senate/parliament numbers and that Lega+FdI+FI would win handily plus they've been winning quite a lot of regions from the PD in recent years. All of which could make it unpredictable.

As a podcast I listened to earlier in the week put it the overriding objective for Italian politicians right now is to avoid another election because they don't want a repeat of 2018 (but with a right-populist coalition winning) and all that could lead to. But on a practical level the number of seats is being halved so it's in politicians' self-interest right now to make sure there's not an election :lol:

That's why they turned to Draghi as soon as Conte couldn't form a new government, and (almost) everybody is throwing themselves at supporting Draghi and his new technocratic government. Nobody wants new elections.

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 11, 2021, 08:17:39 AM

QuoteAnyone who wins >90% of the popular vote is a dictator.
Yeah being "progressive" doesn't mean anything about whether you're a dictator or not. There's been loads of "progressive" dictators.

Self-styled progressives maybe, but not so many real ones.


Progressive dictators? I guess you are thinking of people like Ataturk.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Duque de Bragança

Admiral Yi

Chavez and Maduro surely fit.


Quote from: Valmy on February 11, 2021, 11:34:02 AM
Progressive dictators? I guess you are thinking of people like Ataturk.
There's been loads of dictators who are "progressive". The modernising dictator is a trope - it doesn't stop them being a dictator.
Let's bomb Russia!

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 12, 2021, 05:59:07 AM
Chavez and Maduro surely fit.

Results are not that great, with Maduro even worse than Chavez, unlike those previously mentioned.

The Larch

Draghi has just announced his government, it's a mixture of independent technocrats, who hold the key ministries, and representatives of a broad coalition of 6 parlamentary parties, from 5 Stars and the Democratic Party to Lega and Forza Italia.


I am not well-versed in the problems of Italian state, society or economy, but I hope Draghi - with his huge stature both nationally and internationally - can imprive some things with this unity government. 


Still find the cultural difference with politicians getting the vaccine quite interesting - in the US they got it early which would not fly in the UK where politician have to wait their turn. Apparently Italy is the same as the UK - Draghi gave a speech today with some interesting details about how they're going to prioritise age and health risks now (so far the focus has been on health sector workers - from Italian friends there's been frustration at how broadly this has been interpreted as lots of administrators have been getting their vaccines :lol:). But I noticed that he saluted the President who is 79 for waiting his turn "exemplarily".
Let's bomb Russia!


And for the first time the top two parties in a poll in Italy are Lega and FdI :ph34r: :bleeding:
Let's bomb Russia!


QuoteAlleged killing of migrant by far-right politician prompts Italy gun control row
Estimated 1.2m Italians who are not in police or the security forces own small guns, according to poll
Angela Giuffrida in Rome
Thu 22 Jul 2021 13.17 BST

A row over privately owned guns has been ignited in Italy after a councillor with the far-right League party allegedly shot dead an immigrant.

Massimo Adriatici, a councillor for security in Voghera, is under house arrest following the shooting outside a bar in the Lombardy town on Tuesday night. Youns El Bossettaoui, a 38-year-old man from Morocco, was shot in the chest and later died in hospital.

Matteo Salvini, the leader of the League and a key partner in Mario Draghi's broad coalition, immediately defended Adriatici, arguing that the councillor, a former police commander and criminal lawyer, had acted in self-defence.

He said in a video posted on social media on Wednesday: "The hypothesis is self-defence. [Adriatici] is a professor of criminal law, a former police officer and criminal lawyer, known and esteemed ... he was a victim of aggression to which he responded accidentally."

In an interview with Agorà, a current affairs show on Rai TV, on Thursday morning, Salvini also defended Adriatici for carrying a gun: "From what has emerged, he was attacked by a criminal and illegal immigrant. Let's wait until all the findings emerge – when someone dies it's always a defeat and a time of mourning, but before judging and condemning we must be cautious."

According to Italian media reports, Adriatici, who was carrying a .22 calibre pistol, claimed he intervened when El Bossettaoui, who had a wife and two children in Morocco, was allegedly disturbing customers at the bar. The two men got into a row and El Bossettaoui allegedly pushed Adriatici. Adriatici claimed a bullet was accidentally fired as he fell to the ground.

Enrico Letta, the leader of the centre-left Democratic party, which is also part of Draghi's coalition, called for a ban on privately owned guns. "A man has died, because of a gun," Letta said. "One thing we must and can do: stop privately owned weapons."

Franco Mirabelli, a Democratic party senator, said he found Salvini's words "chilling". "A man shot and killed another man," he added. "It is a tragedy – before the judgments, grief for the victim should prevail."

Riccardo Magi, the president of the small leftwing party More Europe, said: "Salvini's game is deceptive ... it has given citizens the idea that they have to defend themselves and that there is impunity for shooting."

According to figures from the Switzerland-based Small Arms Survey, cited in La Stampa newspaper, an estimated 1.2 million Italians who are not among the police and security forces own small guns.

As with other western EU countries, there are tough laws governing gun ownership and use in Italy. Owners have to first go through a stringent process to obtain a gun purchasing licence, and once a gun is bought the owner must notify the interior ministry. There are limits on the type and number of firearms an individual can own as well as restrictions on the amount of ammunition they can access. Another special licence is required to carry a gun in public spaces.

Most police and security staff can carry guns. However, their use is only permitted in extreme circumstances, including when acting in self-defence.
The paranoia and victim blaming here is incredible - but par for the course for these types of politicians.

There's a huge difference between "distrubing customers at a bar" and being a "criminal" committing "acts of aggression" - and the "he responded accidentally" isn't an incredibly passive description of a shooting.

A really grim story :(
Let's bomb Russia!


how do you respond accidently by shooting someone? especially if you were a cop and thus trained?

kept reading. discharged as he fell. was he holding the gun?
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

The Larch

It sounds a bit like the "and he accidentally stabbed the victim 25 times" kind of joke.


My assumption is that he threatened the guy with the gun and in a flash of temper pulled the trigger. And now he's busy reframing it to make himself avoid any negative consequences.