Quo Vadis GOP?

[Valmy]

I've been saying for many years that cancel culture can work both ways, and has historically sometimes been applied against the left.  That's why it helps to view things with some principles, rather than a quick glance of who gets shafted today.

Indeed, which is why I was always against cancel culture. It is slightly different when they are afraid of being cancelled by the state vs. just social pressure though.

I generally agree with you, but would contend that that the difference is far more than slight.

In fact, the state should not be allowed to cancel people.

Yes. I was making an ironic understatement. When an entire institution is going to be punished by the government for the speech of some person associated with it that is a far more serious matter than simply not wanting to upset the twitter warriors.

[Zoupa]

It is kind of bizarre to see some of these right wing culture warriors lionize Charlie Kirk as some golden avatar of free speech, ready to respect others and meet them in free and open debate, and then almost in the same breadth, demand a crusade to fire and ruin everyone anymore who has anything negative to say about Kirk or express any satisfaction in his demise.

I've got problems with people who express satisfaction in his demise.  Does that make me a right wing culture warrior?

Who's expressed satisfaction in his demise? Apart from the odd rando on twitter or reddit I mean.

[Admiral Yi]

Who's expressed satisfaction in his demise? Apart from the odd rando on twitter or reddit I mean.

I was responding to the moral principle raised by Joan.  I was not discussing a specific case.

I would have thought that was obvious from context.

[The Minsky Moment]

I wasn't raising a moral principle, just pointing out an obvious hypocrisy.

Being for free speech, except when you don't like the speech, is not really being for free speech at all.

[crazy canuck]

I've been saying for many years that cancel culture can work both ways, and has historically sometimes been applied against the left.  That's why it helps to view things with some principles, rather than a quick glance of who gets shafted today.

Indeed, which is why I was always against cancel culture. It is slightly different when they are afraid of being cancelled by the state vs. just social pressure though.

I generally agree with you, but would contend that that the difference is far more than slight.

In fact, the state should not be allowed to cancel people.

Agreed, and as we have debated over the years, this is the fundamental misunderstanding people have a freedom expression rights.

[crazy canuck]

Who's expressed satisfaction in his demise? Apart from the odd rando on twitter or reddit I mean.

I was responding to the moral principle raised by Joan.  I was not discussing a specific case.

I would have thought that was obvious from context.

The only obvious thing from the context is that Minsky was pointing out that people on the right are being hypocrites.  If you consider yourself part of that, so be it.

[Zoupa]

Who's expressed satisfaction in his demise? Apart from the odd rando on twitter or reddit I mean.

I was responding to the moral principle raised by Joan.  I was not discussing a specific case.

I would have thought that was obvious from context.

It wasnt.

[Admiral Yi]

I wasn't raising a moral principle, just pointing out an obvious hypocrisy.

Being for free speech, except when you don't like the speech, is not really being for free speech at all.

I'm for free speech.  I'm against yelling fire in a crowded theater.  I'm against celebrating the assasination of a political opponent.

Am I a hypocrite?

[Jacob]

I'm for free speech.  I'm against yelling fire in a crowded theater.  I'm against celebrating the assasination of a political opponent.

Am I a hypocrite?

What should the repercussions be for celebrating the assassination of a political opponent?

[The Minsky Moment]

Yelling fire in a crowded theater can result in prison time.

When Malcom X was assassinated, many Americans celebrated that result.  Should all of them been imprisoned?

[Admiral Yi]

What should the repercussions be for celebrating the assassination of a political opponent?

A bad reputation.

[Admiral Yi]

When Malcom X was assassinated, many Americans celebrated that result.  Should all of them been imprisoned?

No. 

False dichotomy is not your usual style.

[The Minsky Moment]

When Malcom X was assassinated, many Americans celebrated that result.  Should all of them been imprisoned?

No. 

False dichotomy is not your usual style.

I'm trying to figure out what you are advocating here.  What constitutes celebration in your opinion and what is the fair sanction for that?

[garbon]

I would see it being gauche to cheer his death if the right was just treating it as a sad death. But even before anything was known about the killer, the were bleating about how Dems were evil and the left wants to kill all conservatives. You make it that kind of deal and I think fair to present the other side.

[The Minsky Moment]

Here's a very real concrete example

An associate at the Perkins Coie law firm wrote the following:

Charlie Kirk got famous as one of America's leading spreaders of hatred, misinformation, and intolerance. The current political moment — where an extremist Supreme Court and feckless Republican Congress are enabling a Republican President to become a tyrant and building him modern-day Gestapo for assaulting black and brown folks — is a result of Charlie Kirk's "contributions" to American media and politics.

That said, no one in this country should be murdered for their political speech. Wishing comfort to his wife and children in this difficult time.

Maybe this will be the event that gets MAGA to be serious about gun control. Dead school children haven't been enough.

This was posted on a private social media account, with no connection to the firm.

The associate was summarily fired by the law firm.

Appropriate response or no?  Because this is by no means an isolated incident, this person is just one of many being targeted by the gangs of social media vigilantes hunting for those they deem insufficiently respectful to the exalted memory of Charlie Kirk.