Quo Vadis GOP?

[Threviel]

Found an article on Pisa. The 2012 measurement was catastrophic but by 2015 we were above average and 2018 was also a hige improvement.

Well. Apparently it's possible to discount up to 5 percent of the students from the result because of different reasons.

The good 2018 result was the result of the governments exclusion of 11% of the students due to their immigrant background and their low language skills. This was approved by the OECD. Some schools excluded more students than there were immigrants, so that's natives with too low language skills.

Reputable newspaper on Pisa

Raz, the unparalleled means that we have taken in an unparalleled amount of immigrants, more than comparable countries which should affect schools more than in comparable countries.

[Threviel]

So the problem is "unparalleled mass immigration" we just need evidence to back it up?

Just to be clear, the problem isn't the immigration per se, it's the socio-economic situation badly handled mass immigration results in that's the problem. There's just a lack of resources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population

Since we are really talking about refugees this list should give credence to my claim. Sweden is at 14.66 refugees per 1000 inhabitants, some 50% more than the nearest comparable country which is Norway. Some 5 times more than Germany. Some 20 times more than the US.

When it comes to immigration at large Sweden is comparable to Canada, but three times as many refugees.

Estimates give that immigration costs something like 10 billion € yearly out of a state budget of about 120 billion €. Of course it's going to lead to a lack or resources in schools.

Which leads the discussion a long way from vouchers, sorry for sounding like a raging racist, just trying to give a reason why it's not the vouchers that causes bad Swedish schools.

[The Brain]

Back to school vouchers, according to Wiki in 2010/11 12% of students in years 1-9, and 24% in years 10-12, were in voucher schools. So worth pointing out that a big majority of students are still in government schools, which makes the argument that school vouchers are to blame for Sweden's poor results as a nation face an uphill battle. And yes, I am aware of some government teachers claiming that school vouchers have had a significant negative effect on their schools (mostly variations on "our students suck, they took the good ones", which wouldn't explain a nationwide loss even if there was found to be some insignificant higher-order effects).

Obviously the quality of a school isn't measured (solely) by the knowledge of its graduates. A better student doesn't necessarily mean a better school. And vice versa.

A school that blames a completely different school for their own failures is an organization that is intellectually and professionally bankrupt. Like any supplier, if they start blaming the competition they likely suck.

[Barrister]

Raz, the unparalleled means that we have taken in an unparalleled amount of immigrants, more than comparable countries which should affect schools more than in comparable countries.

The research I'm doing seems to suggest that the level of immigration to Sweden is in fact quite comparable to other countries.

Currently 16.8% of Sweden's population is foreign-born.  That compares pretty well to Norway at 14.2% or Denmark at 10.1%.  You're behind Canada at 21.8%, but again comparable to the US at 14.5% and the UK at 13.2%.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.TOTL.ZS

[Jacob]

The research I'm doing seems to suggest that the level of immigration to Sweden is in fact quite comparable to other countries.

Currently 16.8% of Sweden's population is foreign-born.  That compares pretty well to Norway at 14.2% or Denmark at 10.1%.  You're behind Canada at 21.8%, but again comparable to the US at 14.5% and the UK at 13.2%.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.TOTL.ZS

The distinguishing factor is refugee vs other types of immigrants, with the stated assumption being that refugees are harder to integrate, have fewer social and educational resources, and have more associated social issues compared to immigrants who arrive due to other reasons.

I cannot speak to whether that is factually correct or whether other factors contribute, but that's the argument as I understand it.

[Barrister]

The distinguishing factor is refugee vs other types of immigrants, with the stated assumption being that refugees are harder to integrate, have fewer social and educational resources, and have more associated social issues compared to immigrants who arrive due to other reasons.

I cannot speak to whether that is factually correct or whether other factors contribute, but that's the argument as I understand it.

I see threviel did clarify that subsequently.

Best I could find for statistics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population

And yes - Sweden does appear to have the highest percentage of it's population being refugees of any developed country (some African and Asian countries have much, much higher) at 14.6 / 1000.  Although again Norway isn't that far off at 9.1 / 1000.

Highest in the world appears to be Lebanon, at 208 /1000.  I wonder what could be the factor there...

[Sheilbh]

Wait wut? John Bolton talking about his experiences planning coups elsewhere - didn't think American foreign policy bods liked to admit that sort of thing publicly
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1546954718458662912?s=20&t=wMFen32d9lSrpYlQHt8nGQ

[The Larch]

Wait wut? John Bolton talking about his experiences planning coups elsewhere - didn't think American foreign policy bods liked to admit that sort of thing publicly
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1546954718458662912?s=20&t=wMFen32d9lSrpYlQHt8nGQ

Planning a coup is not that hard, I've done a few!

Damn, what a moment to shut your mouth. A Kissinger he ain't...

[The Brain]

Wait wut? John Bolton talking about his experiences planning coups elsewhere - didn't think American foreign policy bods liked to admit that sort of thing publicly
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1546954718458662912?s=20&t=wMFen32d9lSrpYlQHt8nGQ

What's his batting average?

[Sheilbh]

Nope.

Though, I hope Petro etc have flights booked in case the GOP win again

[The Larch]

Nope.

Though, I hope Petro etc have flights booked in case the GOP win again

Or Boric. 

[Razgovory]

Raz, the unparalleled means that we have taken in an unparalleled amount of immigrants, more than comparable countries which should affect schools more than in comparable countries.

The research I'm doing seems to suggest that the level of immigration to Sweden is in fact quite comparable to other countries.

Currently 16.8% of Sweden's population is foreign-born.  That compares pretty well to Norway at 14.2% or Denmark at 10.1%.  You're behind Canada at 21.8%, but again comparable to the US at 14.5% and the UK at 13.2%.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.TOTL.ZS

It's unclear if that includes illegal immigrants.

[The Minsky Moment]

Wait wut? John Bolton talking about his experiences planning coups elsewhere - didn't think American foreign policy bods liked to admit that sort of thing publicly
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1546954718458662912?s=20&t=wMFen32d9lSrpYlQHt8nGQ

What's his batting average?

As low as his batty average is high.

[grumbler]

Wait wut? John Bolton talking about his experiences planning coups elsewhere - didn't think American foreign policy bods liked to admit that sort of thing publicly
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1546954718458662912?s=20&t=wMFen32d9lSrpYlQHt8nGQ

What's his batting average?

Those who know don't talk.  Those who talk don't know.

[crazy canuck]

Is this real or a parody?

https://twitter.com/nickknudsenus/status/1547259907275075584?s=12