Quo Vadis GOP?

[Grey Fox]

I'm short. If the need arise, I will kneecap any of you.

[The Larch]

More fun stuff from the Texas GOP convention:

Texas GOP Platform also calls for full repeal of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 as well as for the state to hold a referendum on whether Texas should secede

[Josquius]

I'm not down with their kill the gays and the women policies, but I do like this secession business.

[Jacob]

I won't use a word like "cesspool" but I'll admit to being more than mildly concerned about recent developments in the US.

[Jacob]

Aside from what Yi said, it isn't proof that voters don't see that republicans are awful because they vote for republicans. It is possible that they see republicans as awful but democrats as worse, or at least not worth trusting to have control of all three branches. And that there is a lot of evidence pointing in that direction.

Okay, so Republicans are looking to reject democracy for elections they don't win. What is it the Democrats are doing that makes them worse? Woke stuff?

[Eddie Teach]

*some Republicans. There are also ones who do their job, like Mike Pence and Brad Raffensperger.

[Berkut]

Aside from what Yi said, it isn't proof that voters don't see that republicans are awful because they vote for republicans. It is possible that they see republicans as awful but democrats as worse, or at least not worth trusting to have control of all three branches. And that there is a lot of evidence pointing in that direction.

Okay, so Republicans are looking to reject democracy for elections they don't win. What is it the Democrats are doing that makes them worse? Woke stuff?

You are framing the question in a way that doesn't really leave any room for an interesting discussion, or a useful one.

People don't look at what Republicans are doing and say "they are rejecting democracy for elections they don't win!". They look at it and say "They are doing to same shit the Dems do with gerrymandering and crap. It is all bullshit, and maybe the Republicans are taking it too far, but look at how expensive gas has become!".

I don't disagree with your framing, btw - I think it is exactly accurate. But I don't think that framing is how the people in question frame it.

[alfred russel]

Aside from what Yi said, it isn't proof that voters don't see that republicans are awful because they vote for republicans. It is possible that they see republicans as awful but democrats as worse, or at least not worth trusting to have control of all three branches. And that there is a lot of evidence pointing in that direction.

Okay, so Republicans are looking to reject democracy for elections they don't win. What is it the Democrats are doing that makes them worse? Woke stuff?

First, it isn't really accurate that republicans don't want to accept elections they don't win. Trump didn't. Lots of republicans support trump in this. Lots don't. There was some doom posting about republicans who certified state results for biden getting primaried: in particular that Trump recruited one of the most prominent republicans to run against the Georgia governor and went all in against the Georgia secretary of state – who was enemy #1 for not only rejecting Trump but secretly recording the phone call with Trump telling him to find more votes and then publicly releasing it. The Trump backed challengers lost by 50 points and 20 points respectively in the republican primary.

Second, the "trump is uniquely bad" was a winning campaign for Biden (and had the benefit of being true) but was incredibly weak in other races. Democrats actually lost seats in the house last cycle, which is stunning for a party winning the white house. Now that Trump is out of office, it won't work. If we had a system where votes would be cast for parties rather than people it could be different, but Trump extremists aren't generally being run in competitive districts.

Democrats are in a really bad spot because of inflation and the economy/gas prices. It isn't really their fault but when this is the environment the party in power is probably going to get creamed.

[Jacob]

You are framing the question in a way that doesn't really leave any room for an interesting discussion, or a useful one.

People don't look at what Republicans are doing and say "they are rejecting democracy for elections they don't win!". They look at it and say "They are doing to same shit the Dems do with gerrymandering and crap. It is all bullshit, and maybe the Republicans are taking it too far, but look at how expensive gas has become!".

I don't disagree with your framing, btw - I think it is exactly accurate. But I don't think that framing is how the people in question frame it.

Yeah, that's very true. But I don't know how the people in question frame it, except that they don't perceive (or care about) the threat to democracy.

[DGuller]

I think the big reasons voters on the whole don't care about the threat to democracy are obvious, and they've been covered before.  In a polarized society where we're fighting a cold civil war, democracy is much more useful to Democrats than to Republicans.  I don't think we can do a lot about that, unfortunately.

On the margins, though, woke liberalism certainly doesn't help.  There is definitely an authoritarian component to woke liberalism, even its proponents here are open about suppression of speech being a feature, not a bug (they just think that the right kind of speech is being suppressed).  If people feel stifled by the cancel culture, and feel like they're not allowed to express thoughts they think they should be allowed to express, then they may not associate democracy with freedom.  They may actually associate it with lack of freedom.  At that point, you may as well go with authoritarianism that agrees with you rather than the authoritarianism that imposes thought police on you.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Being bigger doesn't make your arguments better. You'd think a lawyer would realize this.

Having bigger hands does though.

[alfred russel]

I think the big reasons voters on the whole don't care about the threat to democracy are obvious, and they've been covered before.  In a polarized society where we're fighting a cold civil war, democracy is much more useful to Democrats than to Republicans.  I don't think we can do a lot about that, unfortunately.

On the margins, though, woke liberalism certainly doesn't help.  There is definitely an authoritarian component to woke liberalism, even its proponents here are open about suppression of speech being a feature, not a bug (they just think that the right kind of speech is being suppressed).  If people feel stifled by the cancel culture, and feel like they're not allowed to express thoughts they think they should be allowed to express, then they may not associate democracy with freedom.  They may actually associate it with lack of freedom.  At that point, you may as well go with authoritarianism that agrees with you rather than the authoritarianism that imposes thought police on you.

"Republicans are a threat to democracy" is a not a good primary message. The bulk of voters don't have college degrees and are over 50. Most are white. Swing voters are also disproportionately non college graduates. The older messages of "Republicans are going to undermine social security and medicare and mostly want to give tax cuts to the rich" resonates with a primarily working class group.

The "threat to democracy" including things like voter ID laws on the basis of minorities disproportionately not having IDs is not going to get the traction of the old pocketbook issues. The "threat to democracy" being more narrowly defined as Jan. 6 / an actual coup actually doesn't cover the party as a whole, just portions of it (and usually not the portions in competitive areas).

It also is rather logically self defeating...in a two party system, if you can only support democracy by voting for one of two parties, are you still a democracy? 

[Barrister]

"Republicans are a threat to democracy" is a not a good primary message. The bulk of voters don't have college degrees and are over 50. Most are white. Swing voters are also disproportionately non college graduates. The older messages of "Republicans are going to undermine social security and medicare and mostly want to give tax cuts to the rich" resonates with a primarily working class group.

The "threat to democracy" including things like voter ID laws on the basis of minorities disproportionately not having IDs is not going to get the traction of the old pocketbook issues. The "threat to democracy" being more narrowly defined as Jan. 6 / an actual coup actually doesn't cover the party as a whole, just portions of it (and usually not the portions in competitive areas).

It also is rather logically self defeating...in a two party system, if you can only support democracy by voting for one of two parties, are you still a democracy? 

I'm kind of impressed how the Jan 6 commission seems to almost go out of its way to involve Republicans.  Liz Cheney is vice-chair of course, but going out of its way to congratulate Mike Pence for his actions that day, to presenting the evidence of multiple Trump staffers all saying there was no evidence the election was rigged.

They certainly could have gone with a "All Republicans are Bastards" approach, but aren't.

[Razgovory]

Here's something from my former governor (who was forced out of office because of a bizarre blackmail scheme.  Also a wife beater), who is running for senate in my state.
https://twitter.com/EricGreitens/status/1538876823978713089
Watch it while you can because it may get tacked down since it's violates Twitter's no inciting violence

[The Larch]

Ron DeSantis chips in on international diplomacy:

Ron DeSantis
@GovRonDeSantis

The election in Colombia of a former narco-terrorist Marxist is troubling and disappointing. The spread of left-wing totalitarian ideology in the Western Hemisphere is a growing threat. Florida stands with Colombian Americans on the side of freedom.