Quo Vadis GOP?

[Berkut]

Sadly you have to convince a bunch of people who actually are NOT aware of how ridiculous the entire thing is, and don't know how bad it is on the right these days because they actually aren't paying that much attention.

They aren't unhinged so much as they are oblivious.

[HisMajestyBOB]

The ultra left are a problem because they scare some people into voting for the right, which is what leaves us with Manchin and Sinema as kingmakers in the first place.

The ultra left politicians like Pelosi and Hillary Clinton?

[Oexmelin]

It's apparently very important to blame now the ultra left for the coming defeat.

[garbon]

It's apparently very important to blame now the ultra left for the coming defeat.

Very important, no? But the ultra left should see their role in it too. Expounding on policies that scare people to the Republicans certainly doesn't help.

[Zoupa]

It's always the same story. The left is blamed, even pre-emptively, for voters (who somehow, have no agency) going to the fascists.

I mean the big push these days is on voting rights. Somehow, democrats are suppose to sit on their ass and not make waves while the other side dismantle the semblance of a fair playing field?

[Valmy]

It's apparently very important to blame now the ultra left for the coming defeat.

Well to be fair I don't really understand the weird electoral swings. It seems to me that the Democrats are going to get crushed because they didn't go far enough, but others are very convinced that whatever they have done goes too far....so what to do? It seems like unless they deliver something that nobody can define they are failures.

I mean the Democratic Party has long been trying to court big business for donations while trying to hold onto labor and working class votes while also doing the leftwing culture war thing. It is a weird kind of coalition. It just may be that the whole thing is too dysfunctional to govern effectively. But just going with one or the other is also too small of a base to win elections.

[Valmy]

It's always the same story. The left is blamed, even pre-emptively, for voters (who somehow, have no agency) going to the fascists.

I mean the big push these days is on voting rights. Somehow, democrats are suppose to sit on their ass and not make waves while the other side dismantle the semblance of a fair playing field?

I mean yeah that is the tension. Are they too radical and thus we should vote for Republicans or are they not radical enough so therefore why support them? It is both of those reasons that tend to lead to these big 1994 and 2010 ass kickings. At least in 1994 they did a tax hike so it kind of made sense. Why everybody was panicking in 2010 will always be a mystery to me.

[Zoupa]

Why everybody was panicking in 2010 will always be a mystery to me.

Really? Because it's the same reason the goptards are restricting voting in certain states. Gotta keep whitey in charge.

[Sheilbh]

Well to be fair I don't really understand the weird electoral swings. It seems to me that the Democrats are going to get crushed because they didn't go far enough, but others are very convinced that whatever they have done goes too far....so what to do? It seems like unless they deliver something that nobody can define they are failures.

I mean they've just not done very well, have they?

And I think part of this flows from Biden. Partly because I think his whole project has been restorationism - which I think is difficult with urgency to save the system. But also I think he, personally, situates himself at the middle of where the Democrats are and I'm not convinced that produces a coherent strategy - it just floats.

[Valmy]

Why everybody was panicking in 2010 will always be a mystery to me.

Really? Because it's the same reason the goptards are restricting voting in certain states. Gotta keep whitey in charge.

But a huge historic swing to Republican support at every single level of government? If it was just about that why did the Democrats have success in 2008 and besides that was the second time it happened. So far both times the Democrats have won control of the House, Senate, and Presidency since 1980 they have gotten historically killed the following election and it kind of looks like we might see a repeat. Though the whys and hows seem really misdiagnosed each time. It gets presented like radical reforms are unpopular but the Democrats barely seemed to accomplished much and what they did accomplish tends to be weirdly popular and hang around for a long time despite big gains by the Republicans.

I don't get it. But hey it is not the Republicans also don't get big losses after they take power, just nothing so decisive as what we saw in 1994 and 2010 and it really makes no sense how local, city, and state officials get pulverized just because of something that happened in DC they have nothing to do with.

[Valmy]

Well to be fair I don't really understand the weird electoral swings. It seems to me that the Democrats are going to get crushed because they didn't go far enough, but others are very convinced that whatever they have done goes too far....so what to do? It seems like unless they deliver something that nobody can define they are failures.

I mean they've just not done very well, have they?

And I think part of this flows from Biden. Partly because I think his whole project has been restorationism - which I think is difficult with urgency to save the system. But also I think he, personally, situates himself at the middle of where the Democrats are and I'm not convinced that produces a coherent strategy - it just floats.

Yes they haven't done well, but how have they not done well? You point out that Biden is restorationist, trying to save and restore the old system...which I basically agree but I have a feeling the message will be his radicalism went too far like with Clinton and Obama.

As for coherent strategy...I mean there were coherent policy objectives and some of them were even achieved. I am not sure what you are talking about by coherent strategy but that might just be because I have never seen coherent strategy as an American Citizen before.

[Sheilbh]

Yes they haven't done well, but how have they not done well? You point out that Biden is restorationist, trying to save and restore the old system...which I basically agree but I have a feeling the message will be his radicalism went too far like with Clinton and Obama.

Isn't "radicalism gone too far" always the midterms message of the party have the White House? Surely their pitch is always basically that they'll act as a break and a counter-measure - and maybe, for the naive idiots in the crowd, you'll be able to work with the President and restore bipartisanship. That doesn't work if you're not pitching the other side as radical.

As for coherent strategy...I mean there were coherent policy objectives and some of them were even achieved. I am not sure what you are talking about by coherent strategy but that might just be because I have never seen coherent strategy as an American Citizen before.

Policy does not matter - most people don't care, fewer understand and rightly so because it's complicated and contested. Policy is just the details. The strategy is what's your wider message and story that explains and ties those policies together.

I don't know if you can do that necessarily if your political position is basically reactive and relational to the rest of your party. It's different on foreign policy where I think Biden has strong views and has a strategy. But domestically it feels like he's basically just "generic Democrat" and I don't know where that takes you.

[Zoupa]

Democrats need to run on basic messages, since people are dumb. "Medicare for all. The vote is for everybody. Clean air, clean water".

Just hammer that shit, nothing else, billboards everywhere etc. The alternative is using the gqp playbook and just lying and abusing power, which no democrat seems to be ready to do (yet).

[HisMajestyBOB]

Democrats need to run on basic messages, since people are dumb. "Medicare for all. The vote is for everybody. Clean air, clean water".

Just hammer that shit, nothing else, billboards everywhere etc. The alternative is using the gqp playbook and just lying and abusing power, which no democrat seems to be ready to do (yet).

It would also help to actually deliver on these things too.

[DGuller]

But that feels unhinged to me.

We don't exclude the votes of unhinged voters from the tally, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.  Voters need to be considered as they are, not as we want them to be.