Quo Vadis GOP?

[Berkut]

This is awesome.

I mean, I don't think you could get a better example of just outright arrogant and malicious contempt for other human beings if you were writing a story about it.

You actually got yourself infected with covid participating in a team sporting event (high school football), after defending to me the Pac 12's decision to hardly play any games last year because of safety. You knew it was a covid risk environment but still participated. Which is probably more high risk than anything I did prior to getting vaccinated.

Your information is, unsurprisingly, incorrect.

[alfred russel]

You are arguing in circles. What started this was you asked Legbiter, "Isn't that the advice you gave us Yank posters when your guy Trump got elected?  Don't get your panties in a bunch, etc.

How did that turn out?"

And I responded:

"It didn't turn out so bad. Life went on."

Did I say anything about COVID in that exchange?  I'll save you the trouble of looking: I didn't.  I didn't because I was even thinking about COVID when I wrote that, nor was that the context of the exchange.

The Trump presidency culminated in the assault of the nation's Capitol Building by a pack of vandals who came within a hair breadth of lynching a politician.  That's pretty damn bad.

Did life go on?  Sure. And life also went on for Japan after the USAF hit them in 45.  Hell within a matter of years they were even better off than before.  Does life go on is an absurdly low standard.

You may not like comparing a US state to a country--but we are a federal republic and the restrictions put in place in each state differed dramatically. After the fact it is exceedingly difficult to measure benefits from specific policies to outcomes. I was pointing out that even if we attribute significant portions of negative outcomes to laxer policies, it isn't at all clear those were not worth the incremental cost. I don't agree with Jacob's blanket initial premise that Canada had a better outcome than the US.

It's not what I like or don't like.  Viruses don't really care about the nuances of federalism.  They are oblivious to the location of state lines. If state X acts irresponsibly but other states act more responsibly then state X still gets the benefit of responsible behavior elsewhere.  That has to be taken into account.  There are also characteristics of different places - e.g. density and other conditions favoring or disfavoring spread in particular places that have to be taken into account.   Either one does a proper study with real controls or you are just picking out a bunch of numbers and throwing them around .

if the focus is just on straight fatality outcome data, then Jacob's initial premise that Canada had a better outcome than the US is unimpeachable. Canada's death/person number are way lower.  I don't think that is the end of the discussion but on the standard you seem to be proposing it should be.

Is Georgia's number better than Nova Scotia?  Is Atlanta better than Montreal?  Is Yonkers better than Thunder Bay?  Does any of that matter?

During covid times, I'm certainly glad I lived in Georgia versus Canada. When I was in Utah I heard a few complaints about the influx of west coasters moving in because of the laxer policies--voting with their feet. I know several people that moved out of NYC as covid refugees as they had the option while working remotely: you know anyone that moved to the city due to its covid restrictions?

[Valmy]

I mean Covid restrictions were pretty poorly and arbitrarily enforced for the most part. I don't think I would have done much differently regardless of where I lived. The only thing that really impacted me was whether schools were open.

[alfred russel]

This is awesome.

I mean, I don't think you could get a better example of just outright arrogant and malicious contempt for other human beings if you were writing a story about it.

You actually got yourself infected with covid participating in a team sporting event (high school football), after defending to me the Pac 12's decision to hardly play any games last year because of safety. You knew it was a covid risk environment but still participated. Which is probably more high risk than anything I did prior to getting vaccinated.

Your information is, unsurprisingly, incorrect.

Sweet jesus, I looked it up and you are even more despicable than I thought!

Here is your post:

Got my first jab Feb 5th. NYS considers sports officials school employees.

Got diagnosed with Covid on the 15th, probably exposed at a basketball game I officiated on the 12th.

Got my second shot on the 26th.

You were officiating an indoor team sporting event!!!

[Berkut]

OMG I AM BEING SO PWNED!

[alfred russel]

No it isn't. I have a vaccine card from a federal vaccine site. When I was traveling internationally in May that was checked. Canada can do so as well.

How easy is it to fake? How easy is it to obtain fraudulently? How many different vaccine cards are there to keep track of?

What are the risks that someone vaccinated in another jurisdiction has received a faulty vaccine? What are the risks that someone who's been vaccinated can still carry the virus and spread it to the unprotected? What are the risks that a vaccinated person carries a new variant across the border?

I don't know the answer to these questions, but the risks aren't zero! Better to keep yourself locked off from the rest of the world!

[Valmy]

I mean the risks are never zero. A virus may sneak inside your house Dorsey.

[The Minsky Moment]

I know several people that moved out of NYC as covid refugees as they had the option while working remotely: you know anyone that moved to the city due to its covid restrictions?

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Yes people moved out of NYC during the pandemic. 
Was that due to the fact that people were dying like flies in the city in the early months in 2020? that seems to have scared some people off.
Or due to the fact that major employers shut down offices during the pandemic to protect staff - something that would have happened regardless of what Cuomo or deBlasio did?
Or was it because being in a dense city where many popular leisure activities take place in cramped spaces with poor ventilation isn't the best place to be during an airborne pandemic?
Where the principal method of transit is the electric sewer? (aka the subway)
Or was it particularly due to specific actions taken by the NYC govt authorities?

I have no idea how to deconstruct those different causes.

[Grey Fox]

Tamas, if you are reading this; Do not scroll up. DO NOT SCROLL UP.

[alfred russel]

I know several people that moved out of NYC as covid refugees as they had the option while working remotely: you know anyone that moved to the city due to its covid restrictions?

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Yes people moved out of NYC during the pandemic. 
Was that due to the fact that people were dying like flies in the city in the early months in 2020? that seems to have scared some people off.
Or due to the fact that major employers shut down offices during the pandemic to protect staff - something that would have happened regardless of what Cuomo or deBlasio did?
Or was it because being in a dense city where many popular leisure activities take place in cramped spaces with poor ventilation isn't the best place to be during an airborne pandemic?
Where the principal method of transit is the electric sewer? (aka the subway)
Or was it particularly due to specific actions taken by the NYC govt authorities?

I have no idea how to deconstruct those different causes.

We can claim ignorance about what is going on, but places like Moab, UT and Red Rocks, NV were swarming with cars from California and Washington State in the winter wave when I was there...and people were open about coming because stuff was shutting down at home. I'm in the state that probably opened up faster than anywhere else and I've never heard of anyone living because of it.

[The Brain]

I know several people that moved out of NYC as covid refugees as they had the option while working remotely: you know anyone that moved to the city due to its covid restrictions?

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Yes people moved out of NYC during the pandemic. 
Was that due to the fact that people were dying like flies in the city in the early months in 2020? that seems to have scared some people off.
Or due to the fact that major employers shut down offices during the pandemic to protect staff - something that would have happened regardless of what Cuomo or deBlasio did?
Or was it because being in a dense city where many popular leisure activities take place in cramped spaces with poor ventilation isn't the best place to be during an airborne pandemic?
Where the principal method of transit is the electric sewer? (aka the subway)
Or was it particularly due to specific actions taken by the NYC govt authorities?

I have no idea how to deconstruct those different causes.

We can claim ignorance about what is going on, but places like Moab, UT and Red Rocks, NV were swarming with cars from California and Washington State in the winter wave when I was there...and people were open about coming because stuff was shutting down at home. I'm in the state that probably opened up faster than anywhere else and I've never heard of anyone living because of it.

Paging Dr. Freud.

[Valmy]

Look I don't think anybody was saying shut downs are pleasant and how much we want things shut down Dorsey.

[Valmy]

Paging Dr. Freud.

[The Minsky Moment]

We can claim ignorance about what is going on, but places like Moab, UT and Red Rocks, NV were swarming with cars from California and Washington State in the winter wave when I was there...and people were open about coming because stuff was shutting down at home. I'm in the state that probably opened up faster than anywhere else and I've never heard of anyone living because of it.

We have heard of Moab's pride—

how great is her arrogance!—

of her conceit, her pride and her insolence;

but her boasts are empty

[Jacob]

I don't know the answer to these questions, but the risks aren't zero! Better to keep yourself locked off from the rest of the world!

I disagree.

That said, I trust my relevant health authorities - and my elected officials - to assess those risks more than I trust you to do so.