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If You Could Rewrite the US Constitution

Started by Admiral Yi, November 17, 2020, 09:43:46 PM

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Syt

Quote from: grumbler on November 19, 2020, 07:54:13 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 19, 2020, 02:40:27 AM
What are the current qualification requirements to become a judge in the US? I assume it differs from state to state (except for federal courts)?

Nominated by the president/governor and ratified by the legislature in the federal system and in states that do it that way; successfully elected in states that elect judges.  You don't have to even have a law degree or ever have practiced law, though all USSC justices have been lawyers.

Interesting. In Germany, judges have to have a law degree with two levels of exam, plus 2 years working as a law clerk. It's the same requirements as for lawyers, prosecutors or notaries and needs to last at least 4 years at a university. Afterwards you basically apply for vacancies and are selected based on qualification etc. like in other public services branches and work your way up the ladder. That said, German (and Austrian) law know lay judges (Schöffen). In Germany, this form of trial applies usually to criminal cases with an expected prison sentence of 2-4 years and without option to send to a secury mental instuitution instead. In those cases you usually have 2 lay judges and 1 career judge trying the cases.

For constitutional court in Germany, state chamber and federal chamber each elect half of the judges (total 8, divided into chambers). Judges have to be at least 40 years old and retire at 68. They need to be elected by at least 2/3 of the votes in the respetive chamber.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
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Sheilbh

For comparison the Supreme Court here is currently recruiting justices (including advertisements on their Instagram account - and the job came up on my LinkedIn which is ambitious :lol:). The qualifications are set out in statute though and you need to have either held "high judicial office" (High Courts in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, Courts of Appeal in England, Wales and Scotland, or Court of Session in Scotland) or need to have 15 years experience as a practicing solicitor, barrister or gaining experience in law (which basically also covers mediation, arbitration, legal academics etc). So Lord Sumption became Supreme Court justice straight from the bar, similarly Baroness Hale moved up through the judiciary but I don't think she ever practiced - she was an academic specialising in family law and then worked for the Law Commission which proposed reforms to family law before moving into the judiciary.

All judges have to retire at 70 (unless they were appointed before 1995 - for them it's 75). If for some reason the Supreme Court doesn't have enough judges they can basically second in from a supplementary panel which is made up of the most senior civil and criminal judges in each of the nations or retired Supreme Court judges who've retired in the last 5 years and are under 75.

The current job advert is here along with some podcasts of current justices on how their career has gone, plus an infographic on the appointment process:
https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/judicial-vacancies.html
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crazy canuck

Quote from: Sheilbh on November 19, 2020, 11:10:31 AM
For comparison the Supreme Court here is currently recruiting justices (including advertisements on their Instagram account - and the job came up on my LinkedIn which is ambitious :lol:). The qualifications are set out in statute though and you need to have either held "high judicial office" (High Courts in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, Courts of Appeal in England, Wales and Scotland, or Court of Session in Scotland) or need to have 15 years experience as a practicing solicitor, barrister or gaining experience in law (which basically also covers mediation, arbitration, legal academics etc). So Lord Sumption became Supreme Court justice straight from the bar, similarly Baroness Hale moved up through the judiciary but I don't think she ever practiced - she was an academic specialising in family law and then worked for the Law Commission which proposed reforms to family law before moving into the judiciary.

All judges have to retire at 70 (unless they were appointed before 1995 - for them it's 75). If for some reason the Supreme Court doesn't have enough judges they can basically second in from a supplementary panel which is made up of the most senior civil and criminal judges in each of the nations or retired Supreme Court judges who've retired in the last 5 years and are under 75.

The current job advert is here along with some podcasts of current justices on how their career has gone, plus an infographic on the appointment process:
https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/judicial-vacancies.html

We have an application process as well, for all levels of court appointments, but they are not publicly advertised. 

Rather there is a pool of candidates who have gone through the vetting and approval process and when a vacancy comes up the Minister then appoints from that pool.   The exception is the SCC where a selection process occurs when a vacancy is anticipated.

viper37

Quote from: grumbler on November 17, 2020, 10:36:50 PM
Senate elected by proportional voting nationwide and confirms appointments as present.  Unicameral legislatures are bad, lack of confirmation procedures is bad.
House and Senate make the rules for House and Senate election procedures.  States can tag along if they wish.

Add something to Second Amendment to make it clear that it refers to well-regulated militias (i.e. the National Guard).

Only appoint literate judges to the Supreme Court.  Limit terms to single ten-year term.  Maximum age of seventy.

In fact, maximum age of seventy for all elected and appointed positions.  People can serve partial terms until age seventy.

Budgets must be balanced.  Deficit spending must be by separate legislation for specific purposes.

No naming of bills. 

President may not fire heads of independent agencies.  Justice department made an independent agency.  Heads of independent agencies may be impeached.

President elected by STV.  Vice-president elected when president on the same ticket is elected.

Probably some other things.
I'd keep the Senate as it is, States/regions need representation.  There are too many States, but that's another matter.
Otherwise, I agree with most of what you said.
I think I'd use the 2 round electoral system of France for the Presidential system, it might promote the idea of 3rd parties or give a better chance to independant candidates to make their points count.
Needless to say, I disagree with BB about the US importing the Canadian mess over there.  Replacing one mess with another is not improvement ;)
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 18, 2020, 01:05:30 PM
The Court in Canada has been pretty good at it actually.  I would not be so confident in politicians, and especially right wing politicians, being entrusted with protecting the rights of people he doesn't like.

The only way that makes sense is your very narrow definition of what a right should be.

Which is the reason the Bill of Rights makes sense.  Rather than relying on the fiat of the politicians of the day.
I agree with you, except the part about right wing politicians.  Historically, left&right have been pretty bad at keeping citizen rights intact in Canada, and since the 80s, there's a definite shift toward evilness for the left wing Liberal Party and only the Supreme Court has prevented more erosion of our rights.
I'm surprised to see BB, yet again, take the same stance as the Liberal Party of Canada in attacking some of its citizens' rights.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: Zanza on November 18, 2020, 02:26:44 PM
As the German constitution was mentioned, I dont think it fits. Some parts are very elegant and work well, others not so much, especially in a different context like the United States.

I guess our upper chamber works a bit better than the American Senate right now: the state governments are represented there instead of personally elected members. More like the US Senate before the 17th amendment. The states have different voting weights, but a heavy skew towards smaller states to give them over-proportional representation. Maybe add something like the QMV (certain percentage of population and number of states) of the EU to compensste for a lack of the filibuster.
I always liked your upper chamber, and the chief of State being elected by popular vote.  It seemed to reach a nice compromise.  Of course, I've forgotten all the smaller details and the names of each organism since I've studied it, but I remember the basics :)
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

grumbler

Quote from: viper37 on November 19, 2020, 09:09:22 PM
I'd keep the Senate as it is, States/regions need representation.  There are too many States, but that's another matter.
Otherwise, I agree with most of what you said.
I think I'd use the 2 round electoral system of France for the Presidential system, it might promote the idea of 3rd parties or give a better chance to independant candidates to make their points count.
Needless to say, I disagree with BB about the US importing the Canadian mess over there.  Replacing one mess with another is not improvement ;)

the Senate doesn't represent the states any more, members represent constituents, just like the House does.  The Senate probably needs a popular mandate to be coequal with the House, but the current system just make Senators Congressmen with bigger districts and longer terms.  Creating a national house of congress with a popular mandate but no ties to a particular constituency, elected by PR, seems to me better than appointment by the states or popular election by a constituency that expects explicit pandering. 

My idea might make parties too powerful (though it would make third and fourth parties viable), but it is worth considering.  The current system clearly does not work.

Agree that the Canadian system isn't one I would copy, especially if we followed BB's suggestion of eliminating protections for individual rights.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

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viper37

Quote from: Barrister on November 18, 2020, 05:19:41 PM

Basically you have the right to your language of choice in dealing with the federal government, the courts, or in getting your child educated.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html
that's the theory.  In practice it varies from province to province and there have been multiple lawsuits against provinces for failing to enforce those rights.  The federal government has been absent of all these fights though.  I guess it's not really important outside of Quebec.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: Grey Fox on November 18, 2020, 08:52:42 PM
Having non elected head of state can be very cheap, especially if another country is footing the majority of the bill.
Somehow, I'm not sure that's true with Michaelle Jean's and Lise Thibault's expenses :P
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: grumbler on November 18, 2020, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2020, 09:44:01 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 18, 2020, 09:03:46 PM
It's better than having a weird half measure President like Germany does.

I don't see the point of either one.

You don't see the point of having a head of state that doesn't serve at the whim of the leaders of the political parties?

I think that the idea is that the head of state is supposed to provide continuity and a sort of final check on unbridled populism.
Canada's governor general represents the immortal British Queen, that's our continuity :P
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 19, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Even if you just adopted the Canadian Federal election system for how elections are administered you would be much further ahead
that's telling in how much shit they're in.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

crazy canuck

Quote from: viper37 on November 19, 2020, 09:34:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 19, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Even if you just adopted the Canadian Federal election system for how elections are administered you would be much further ahead
that's telling in how much shit they're in.

What is the problem with the Elections Act? 

Grey Fox

Quote from: viper37 on November 19, 2020, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 18, 2020, 08:52:42 PM
Having non elected head of state can be very cheap, especially if another country is footing the majority of the bill.
Somehow, I'm not sure that's true with Michaelle Jean's and Lise Thibault's expenses :P

The Royals cost, in 2018-19, 86$ million to the UK. MJ & LT are not THAT expensive.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

viper37

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 20, 2020, 09:02:40 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 19, 2020, 09:34:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 19, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Even if you just adopted the Canadian Federal election system for how elections are administered you would be much further ahead
that's telling in how much shit they're in.

What is the problem with the Elections Act? 
I was talking about our Constitution, which gives way too much power to the Federal government and the PMO in particular, since it relies a lot on tradition, and we've seen how well that went in the past.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: Grey Fox on November 20, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 19, 2020, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 18, 2020, 08:52:42 PM
Having non elected head of state can be very cheap, especially if another country is footing the majority of the bill.
Somehow, I'm not sure that's true with Michaelle Jean's and Lise Thibault's expenses :P

The Royals cost, in 2018-19, 86$ million to the UK. MJ & LT are not THAT expensive.
Well, it's ture MJ has been promoted to some other duties in the meantime :P
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.