What does a BIDEN Presidency look like?

[Valmy]

SJW was used ironically to make fun of hypocrites who used social issues as a stick to fight internet wars in a dishonest way.

Then almost immediately it got deployed on anybody who doesn't hate gays, trans, and non-white people appropriately, which is kind of typical how these things go.

[Sheilbh]

SJW was used ironically to make fun of hypocrites who used social issues as a stick to fight internet wars in a dishonest way.

Then almost immediately it got deployed on anybody who doesn't hate gays, trans, and non-white people appropriately, which is kind of typical how these things go.

As I say - UK discourse may be different, but I've seen everything from avocadoes to my entire generation ("The self-pitying 'woke' generation needed a war – and in coronavirus they've got one" - I'd say they've done pretty well and behaved responsibly to protect elders) described as woke

[Berkut]

https://www.vox.com/22338417/james-carville-democratic-party-biden-100-days

Sean Illing
Sounds like you got a problem with "wokeness," James.

James Carville
Wokeness is a problem and everyone knows it. It's hard to talk to anybody today — and I talk to lots of people in the Democratic Party — who doesn't say this. But they don't want to say it out loud.

How is someone else bringing up the term evidence to refute the statement that he didn't bring up the term?

[Berkut]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-attacking-cancel-culture-and-woke-people-is-becoming-the-gops-new-political-strategy/amp/

This is exactly what is so offensive about your attittude towards people like myself.

How is citing an article about GOP strategy in response to my issues around messaging anything other than an accusation that I am lying about what I think and why I find this is an issue? If the GOP says the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, does that make me a GOPtard if I note that it does in fact do that?

The GOP wants to attack the left because they are against the IDEAS behind the progressive agenda. In the context of race, they are the ones we are actually fighting - the ones who think everything is fine, and black people really should just calm down and quit complaining so much. The ones who are the actual racists or at least pretty ok with racism.

So when I or DG or whomever brings up an issues, and you respond with an article about what the GOP is doing, you are making a classic ad hom fallacy, and one that is grossly insulting to boot - you are saying that we are lying about why we care about this issue, and in fact, what we really are trying to do is use the issue as cover for our secret identities as GOP racists.

You did the same thing in the back room discussion about China - that if I did not agree with your views on working in China, why, it could not be because of the reasons that I listed and tried to carefully explain, it MUST BE because I condone genocide and my arguments were just "rationalizations". This is the fucking crux of what is wrong with this kind of intolerant left (I will carefully avoid using and words to label this) - that you cannot disagree with ANYTHING, because if you do, why, then you must actually be a stalking horse member of the right. There is no room for just disagreeing.

We saw this with Bernie Bros in the primaries, where they spent a lot of energy trying to actually tell people to not bother voting if Bernie didn't win, because Biden is just a double secret Republican anyway.

And we are seeing it right now, with your response to this entire thing being the accusation that this cannot be a good faith argument about strategy, it MUST be an attempt to attack the ideas behind the progressive movement.

[Admiral Yi]

I agree.  It's essentially saying wokeness can not be legitimately critiqued.  In other words, wokeness is perfect.

[alfred russel]

How is citing an article about GOP strategy in response to my issues around messaging anything other than an accusation that I am lying about what I think and why I find this is an issue? If the GOP says the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, does that make me a GOPtard if I note that it does in fact do that?

You are just getting a taste of your own medicine--suck it up. Can't really sympathize with someone who debates dishonestly getting some dishonesty thrown his way.

It was just the start of March when you were going off on me for following McConnell's line (which as far as I know he actually never advocated) when I came back to spike the football that my prediction in late January was right that if Schumer held an impeachment trial in February the trial would be rushed and Biden's cabinet would be delayed getting into place. You even said I should get a brown star for my shirt.

Btw, I've got more bad news for you: Texas covid cases have continued to plunge post restriction lifting: by significantly more than the national average (and are below the national average).

[Berkut]

I also read the Carville interview now and noticed that he doesn't even have a solution on what words should be used to advanced the Democratic agenda

Of course he did. He cited specific examples, which I actually cited as well, and you strangely left out of your response.

Do you in fact think that politicians calling to "abolish the police" are useful in getting more progressives elected? The solution is to not say things like that. Are you really arguing that there isn't any other possible words to advance the Democratic agenda then "abolish the police"?

The solution is simple, and he stated it - the Dems should be more disciplined, and more willing to call people like that up and say "Hey, stop with that bullshit".

But you know what? People DO NOT say that to those utterly nonsensical prattles. You know why they don't say that? Because when they do, the response they get is "It is interesting how 'woke' has now been slotted in by white people where 'playing the race card' used to sit."

That is why the left can't get rid of the " issues, platforms, or grievances on the topic of race that are extreme and utterly nonsensical". Because the moment you try to talk about it, you are accused of being a closet racist.

[Berkut]

How is citing an article about GOP strategy in response to my issues around messaging anything other than an accusation that I am lying about what I think and why I find this is an issue? If the GOP says the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, does that make me a GOPtard if I note that it does in fact do that?

You are just getting a taste of your own medicine--suck it up. Can't really sympathize with someone who debates dishonestly getting some dishonesty thrown his way.

It was just the start of March when you were going off on me for following McConnell's line (which as far as I know he actually never advocated) when I came back to spike the football that my prediction in late January was right that if Schumer held an impeachment trial in February the trial would be rushed and Biden's cabinet would be delayed getting into place. You even said I should get a brown star for my shirt.

Btw, I've got more bad news for you: Texas covid cases have continued to plunge post restriction lifting: by significantly more than the national average (and are below the national average).

[Valmy]

Btw, I've got more bad news for you: Texas covid cases have continued to plunge post restriction lifting: by significantly more than the national average (and are below the national average).

I feel a bit tired explaining this to people but the restriction lifting did not really change anything. My office is still operating at below capacity just as before and we are a state office so one would at least expect us to be impacted by this supposed restriction lifting, we are actually re-opening shortly after labor day...which is the actual date the governor set to re-open. On the other hand we are doing a big vaccination drive. The whole "lifting restrictions" thing was just a political effort by Abbott to save his ass politically after the winter storm and gave the talking heads on each side of the culture war something to babble about but did not actually change anything. Everybody is doing pretty much what they were doing before it. Currently 48% of all Texans over 16 have at least one vaccine shot and 33.3% are fully vaccinated, both numbers well ahead of the national average.

So everybody doing what they were doing before and doing well getting vaccinated? Sounds like a recipe for falling covid cases.

Also can we keep this endless circular debate to the designated thread? I mean nobody is putting in thread COVID restrictions but it would be nice.

[alfred russel]

I feel a bit tired explaining this to people but the restriction lifting did not really change anything. My office is still operating at below capacity just as before and we are a state office so one would at least expect us to be impacted by this supposed restriction lifting, we are actually re-opening shortly after labor day...which is the actual date the governor set to re-open. On the other hand we are doing a big vaccination drive. The whole "lifting restrictions" thing was just a political effort by Abbott to save his ass politically after the winter storm and gave the talking heads on each side of the culture war something to babble about but did not actually change anything. Everybody is doing pretty much what they were doing before it. Currently 48% of all Texans over 16 have at least one vaccine shot and 33.3% are fully vaccinated, both numbers well ahead of the national average.

So everybody doing what they were doing before and doing well getting vaccinated? Sounds like a recipe for falling covid cases.

I don't know why you feel like you have to keep explaining this because I understand it--it is actually kind of my point. I live in the state that ran the original experiment in human sacrifice, getting rid of almost all restrictions a year ago, but is roughly at the national average in deaths/capita. I'm quite aware that this had a limited impact on the high risk activities people do (it may be september before I go back to the office).

People like Berkut and MM fell for the other side of the culture war bullshit are unable to come to grips with the lack of negative results from the lifting of the Texas mandate.

[Valmy]

I feel a bit tired explaining this to people but the restriction lifting did not really change anything. My office is still operating at below capacity just as before and we are a state office so one would at least expect us to be impacted by this supposed restriction lifting, we are actually re-opening shortly after labor day...which is the actual date the governor set to re-open. On the other hand we are doing a big vaccination drive. The whole "lifting restrictions" thing was just a political effort by Abbott to save his ass politically after the winter storm and gave the talking heads on each side of the culture war something to babble about but did not actually change anything. Everybody is doing pretty much what they were doing before it. Currently 48% of all Texans over 16 have at least one vaccine shot and 33.3% are fully vaccinated, both numbers well ahead of the national average.

So everybody doing what they were doing before and doing well getting vaccinated? Sounds like a recipe for falling covid cases.

I don't know why you feel like you have to keep explaining this because I understand it--it is actually kind of my point. I live in the state that ran the original experiment in human sacrifice, getting rid of almost all restrictions a year ago, but is roughly at the national average in deaths/capita. I'm quite aware that this had a limited impact on the high risk activities people do (it may be september before I go back to the office).

People like Berkut and MM fell for the other side of the culture war bullshit are unable to come to grips with the lack of negative results from the lifting of the Texas mandate.

I am tired because it became a big point for the chattering classes to dig into and I spent a lot of time trying to get people from out of this state, and even some inside the state, to realize that Abbott's announcement had no practical impact on anything even for the state government itself. The outrage machine often misses the small print.

[Admiral Yi]

After some thought, I do agree with Grab On's point that there is a parallel between calling someone woke and saying they are playing the race card.  But I'm pretty sure he won't be pleased by the reason for my agreement.

Both those actions, calling someone woke and saying they are playing the race card, entail the possibility of false positives and false negatives.

To explain further, there can be cases when a person tries to inject race into a situation where it has no relevance to the issue at hand in an effort to elicit sympathy.  Conversely a person can claim the race card is being played to deligitimize a legitimate grievance.

What the woke community refuses to acknowledge is the existence of the true positive.  That there are actual instances of the first case, where race is injected into an issue in which it has no relevance.

This is all probably just a repackaging of things already said in this thread, but I liked the idea about false positiives and false negatives.  Plus I like to post.

[crazy canuck]

What's the problem with being called woke, anyway? It's like being called a SJW. Yeah, I'm so offended by being called a person who supports social justice.

Or this:

Soon being aware will be problematic too.

[Jacob]

After some thought, I do agree with Grab On's point that there is a parallel between calling someone woke and saying they are playing the race card.  But I'm pretty sure he won't be pleased by the reason for my agreement.

Both those actions, calling someone woke and saying they are playing the race card, entail the possibility of false positives and false negatives.

To explain further, there can be cases when a person tries to inject race into a situation where it has no relevance to the issue at hand in an effort to elicit sympathy.  Conversely a person can claim the race card is being played to deligitimize a legitimate grievance.

As you say, there are cases of false negatives (people saying race is relevant when it's not) but there are also false positives (people dismissing race as being irrelevant, even though it is in fact relevant). Seems to me "woke" is frequently being used to dismiss claims that race is relevant by those who think it is not, whether it's a false positives or a false negatives.

I think the real political battleground - as well as the primary area of potential confusion and frustration for people who potentially mostly agree - is who determines when race is relevant and when it is not (not to mention in which way it's relevant). There are significant area of the debate where reasonable arguments can be made that race is or isn't relevant. IMO, dismissing those who think it's relevant as being perjoratively woke is just as surefire a way to derail any constructive dialogue as is accusing those who think it isn't as being racist.

[Razgovory]

Huh, and I always thought that "Woke" was just cultural appropriation of the Anglo-Saxon hero Hereward the Wake.  You learn something everyday I suppose.