What does a BIDEN Presidency look like?

[Solmyr]

If Trump decides to go after people, will he even care about pardons issued by Biden?

[crazy canuck]

There is at least a good argument to be had regarding what it means to preemptively pardon somebody. So, I am not going to be surprised if the trumpet administration tests the legal limits of those pardons.

The main reason Trump wouldn't want to do that is thinking ahead he would like to preemptively pardon everybody around him after he leaves office.

[The Minsky Moment]

Yeah cc you answered your own question.  Trump won't do anything to weaken his favorite Presidential power.  Biden is yesterday's news, not a priority.  There are plenty of present-day enemies whose rights can be violated. And with an incompetent AG running a crippled agency, there will be only so much bandwidth.

[Barrister]

I'm talking about legal system in general, I just gave an example that was civil.  Cops can likewise use the power of the state to fuck with you, if that's what they choose to do.  Some traffic offenses, over which cops have great discretion, can still cost you a pretty penny to defend yourself against, with serious consequences if you don't.

I've mentioned before I enjoy watching cop cams.  I watch them a lot.  A lot of them start with something innocuous like window tint or a busted tail light.  The escalation inevitably is initiated by the driver's refusal to hand over an ID or roll down the window.  I have never seen a video in which I judged the driver was cuffed an processed because the cop was on a power trip.

I watch those a lot as well.  High schools should have a mandatory class "how not to get arrested", where they teach you what to do when you meet a cop, and show a bunch of those videos.  You could really cut down on needless arrests and shootings if people understood how they are suppose to act when around a cop.

eh...

So like Yi, I went through an algorithm rabbit hole of watching sovereign citizen/freemen getting absolutely owned by cops when they completely do not understand their legal obligations.

But I'd also hate for every police-citizen interaction to become very legalistic.

"Hey there.  I'm with the police - can you tell me what's going on here?"

"Fuck you.  Here's my drivers license.  I'm not going to say anything else until I speak with my lawyer".

"I was just asking..."

"Not. One. Word".


So often when police arrive on the scene they have no clue what the hell is going on - just that someone called for the police.  Many times a quick chat with the officer is all it takes to resolve matters.

Even worse - when I see files where there's obviously two sides to the story, but when only one side talks with the police then that's all I have to go by.

[Sheilbh]

Were all the rules broken, or were they just set up in such way that they grossly favoured certain interests and structures?  I suppose you could argue that the legal system was made useless through the sheer expense involved.

Yeah, I don't understand the line about rules being broken, the criticism that has more weight is the imposition of needless rules.

The thing that sprung to mind for me - leaving the issues themselves to the side - is the different approach Western countries have taken to ICC warrants for Putin and Netanyahu.

[crazy canuck]

Were all the rules broken, or were they just set up in such way that they grossly favoured certain interests and structures?  I suppose you could argue that the legal system was made useless through the sheer expense involved.

Yeah, I don't understand the line about rules being broken, the criticism that has more weight is the imposition of needless rules.

The thing that sprung to mind for me - leaving the issues themselves to the side - is the different approach Western countries have taken to ICC warrants for Putin and Netanyahu.

In what way? The US has always opposed the ICC in principle, so it was not surprising the US reacted the way it did.  And the countries that have supported the creation of the ICC also acted accordingly - or am I missing something?

[Savonarola]

From New York Magazine:

The Biggest Revelations in the New Book on Joe Biden's Troubling Decline
Portrait of Chas Danner
By Chas Danner, staff editor at Intelligencer
Joe Biden's apparent physical and mental decline, his fateful decision to run for reelection, and the Democratic Party's unwillingness to question that decision until it was too late are all back in the news in a big way, thanks to a new book due out next week from Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson. In Original Sin: President Biden's Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again, Tapper and Thompson report on Biden's downfall both before and after his disastrous debate, including a detailed accounting of his age and how his ego caught up with him, as well as how he was shielded and enabled by aides and loyalists. Below is a running list of some of the biggest revelations reported in the book.

Biden aides looked into possibility he would need to use a wheelchair

Per Axios, Tapper and Thompson write that "Biden's physical deterioration — most apparent in his halting walk — had become so severe that there were internal discussions about putting the president in a wheelchair, but they couldn't do so until after the election."

Per the book, Biden's physician, Dr. Kevin O'Connor, had warned that if the president had a bad fall in 2023 or 2024, he might have to use a wheelchair while he recovered. Not surprisingly, Biden's aides thought that it was untenable, politically, for him to use a wheelchair during his reelection campaign.

Biden's doctor had argued for more rest time
As Axios summarizes:

[Dr. Kevin O'Connor] had long privately expressed concern about the toll the presidency was taking on Biden's health. The doctor often argued with Biden's political officials to get more rest time into the president's schedule. O'Connor sometimes quipped that Biden's staff members were trying to kill him, while he was trying to keep him alive.

David Plouffe said that 'Biden totally fucked us'
Per the authors' book excerpt in The New Yorker:

"We got so screwed by Biden, as a party," David Plouffe, who helped run the Harris campaign, told us. Plouffe had served as Senator Barack Obama's Presidential campaign manager in 2008 and as a senior adviser to President Obama before largely retiring from politics in 2013. After Biden dropped out of the race, on July 21, 2024, Plouffe was drafted to help Harris in what he saw as a "rescue mission." Harris, he said, was a "great soldier," but the compressed hundred-and-seven-day race was "a fucking nightmare."



"And it's all Biden," Plouffe said. By deciding to run for reelection and then waiting more than three weeks after the debate to bow out, Plouffe added, "He totally fucked us."

Many top Democrats blame Biden for Kamala Harris's election loss

Report Tapper and Thompson, per the Washington Post, among the 200 people they spoke to:

No one thought that the Harris campaign had been without error, but for the most knowledgeable Democratic officials and donors, and for top members of the Harris campaign, there was no question about the father of this election calamity: It was Joe Biden.

Of course, this could also be interpreted as these people wanting Biden to get the most blame.

Biden didn't recognize George Clooney

Tapper and Thompson report on what happened at the now-infamous Hollywood fundraiser that helped prompt actor George Clooney to write an influential op-ed against Biden's reelection bid. According to the excerpt of the book published in The New Yorker, when Biden arrived at the party, his visible frailty stunned attendees, including Clooney, whom Biden didn't seem to recognize even though they had known each other for years. Here's the book's account of that awkward exchange:

"Thank you for being here," the President said to guests as he shuffled past them. "Thank you for being here." Clooney felt a knot form in his stomach as the President approached him. Biden looked at him. "Thank you for being here," he said. "Thank you for being here."

"You know George," the assisting aide told the President, gently reminding him who was in front of him. "Yeah, yeah," the President said to one of the most recognizable men in the world, the host of this lucrative fund-raiser. "Thank you for being here."

"Hi, Mr. President," Clooney said.

"How are ya?" the President replied.

"How was your trip?" Clooney asked.

"It was fine," the President said.

It seemed clear that the President had not recognized Clooney.

"It was not O.K.," recalled the Hollywood V.I.P. who had witnessed this moment. "That thing, the moment where you recognize someone you know—especially a famous person who's doing a fucking fund-raiser for you—it was delayed. It was uncomfortable."

"George Clooney," the aide clarified for the President.

"Oh, yeah!" Biden said. "Hi, George!"

"Clooney was shaken to his core," Tapper and Thompson write.

Biden also forgot the names of top aides

Per the New York Times, the book describes Biden forgetting the names of top aide Mike Donilon, national security adviser Jake Sullivan, White House communications director Kate Bedingfield, and DNC chair Jaime Harrison. The authors also report that Biden once confused HHS secretary Xavier Becerra with DHS secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

Aides scripted Cabinet meetings for Biden, shielded him from Cabinet members

According to the book, Biden's aides scripted much of the internal meetings even when there was no media attending them, and multiple Cabinet secretaries told Tapper and Thompson that aides limited access to the president. Per CNN's summary:

"Access dropped off considerably in 2024, and I didn't interact with him as much," said one Cabinet secretary, who explained that instead of briefing Biden, the secretary would brief other senior White House aides, who then briefed the president.



The Cabinet member thought it was strange and wondered if it was a way of filtering out particular information and directing Biden's decision-making, according to the book.



"Yes, the president is 'making the decisions,' but if the inner circle is shaping them in such a way, is it really a decision? Are they leading him to something?" the Cabinet secretary wondered. ...

A third Cabinet secretary told Tapper and Thompson that Biden's top aides "shielded him in every meeting." From October 2023 on, "the cabinet was kept at bay," this secretary said.

"For months, we didn't have access to him. There was clearly a deliberate strategy by the White House to have him meet with as few people as necessary," the third Cabinet secretary told the authors.

Former Obama White House chief of staff Bill Daley tried to convince governors to primary Biden

Per the book, Daley quietly tried to convince Democratic governors Andy Beshear, Gavin Newsom, and J.B. Pritzker to take on the president, but none were receptive.

The book offers a damning view of Democratic inaction — and ongoing fear of speaking out — about Biden's decline

Tapper and Thompson report that "no Democrats in the White House or leaders on Capitol Hill raised any doubts, either privately with the president or publicly, about Biden's second run" in the aftermath of the 2022 midterms. As the New York Times' Reid Epstein notes in his look at the book's revelations:

Nearly a year after pressure from Democrats forced Mr. Biden to drop out of the presidential race, the book shows that the party remains unwilling to reckon publicly with its choice to back Mr. Biden as its nominee for as long as it did.

The reluctance of many Democratic leaders and insiders to voice criticism without the cloak of anonymity, even after their devastating defeat, suggests a lasting fear of speaking out. It also points to an awareness that saying now that Mr. Biden should not have run in 2024 could prompt questions about why they said nothing when it mattered

It was obvious Biden had declined during his presidency; but the extent of it and the lengths his inner circle went to to shield him from everyone, including members of his own cabinet, I find surprising.

[Sheilbh]

I'm surprised at the extent - not the cover-up because I thought there was clear decline and they were clearly lying to protect him (and their own position).

But there really needs to be a reckoning within the Democrat and certain parts of the media on this - you can see it with Elizabeth Warren doing that podcast. It's a scandal - I've said it before but how were decisions being made on one of Biden's bad days? Were they delayed? Was it just senior aides? Were the cabinet involved?

Also think there's something very distasteful about this stuff coming out after the point when it could matter because people have books to sell.

[Grey Fox]

I am not surprised, that's how aides and staff members are always portrayed in fiction. Protecting the boss at all cost. Today's aides and staffs grew up on that fiction.

[crazy canuck]

The Democratic aids got a lot of practice with the other geriatric members of Congress.

[Josquius]

Covering up Bidens decline I can sympathise with for political reasons as far as him being president goes.
That they let him run for re-election when this was going on though.... That should have been when it stopped. Announce to the world it's normal people around 80 suddenly go through a sudden decline (Hint hint. Look at the other one. He's next) so sadly Biden will be retiring and not running for re-election.

[Sheilbh]

The Democratic aids got a lot of practice with the other geriatric members of Congress.

I think there is something to that - I saw the controversy over the article about Fetterman's health. And I do think there's a really worrying culture in DC (perhaps especially among Democrats which are more gerontocratic) of basically considering it prurient and inappropriate for the media to pry or cover the health and fitness of political leaders.

It's really, really not - it is exactly the job of the media.

[Admiral Yi]

Covering up Bidens decline I can sympathise with for political reasons as far as him being president goes.
That they let him run for re-election when this was going on though.... That should have been when it stopped. Announce to the world it's normal people around 80 suddenly go through a sudden decline (Hint hint. Look at the other one. He's next) so sadly Biden will be retiring and not running for re-election.

What do you mean by let him?  He didn't need anyone's permission.

Not letting him would have meant something like resigning en masse and broadcasting to the world he was unfit.

[Sheilbh]

The Democrat re-jigged their primary calendar in order to make it far more difficult for there to be a challenger. That was a mistake.

I think people should have put pressure on Biden privately and tried to dissuade them. And there are times when you should go public and it's the right thing to do is to resign - that should have happened.

[HVC]

I'm surprised at the extent - not the cover-up because I thought there was clear decline and they were clearly lying to protect him (and their own position).

But there really needs to be a reckoning within the Democrat and certain parts of the media on this - you can see it with Elizabeth Warren doing that podcast. It's a scandal - I've said it before but how were decisions being made on one of Biden's bad days? Were they delayed? Was it just senior aides? Were the cabinet involved?

Also think there's something very distasteful about this stuff coming out after the point when it could matter because people have books to sell.

Sure, when people did it for Rosevelt to fight hitler it was noble, but to fight Trump it's a disgrace