Conspiracy theory in Europe

[crazy canuck]

There are no Satanic cults out there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Set

You used as an example a group that says they are not a satanic cult.

[Sheilbh]

Fascinating piece on modern conspiracy theories in the latest LRB:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n20/james-meek/red-pill-blue-pill

This line in particular rang true:

I was reminded of one of the reasons it's so difficult to argue with conspiracy theorists: you're faced with a choice between challenging limitless errors one by one, or denouncing an entire edifice of belief, which usually means calling the conspiracy theorist mad or stupid, at which point conspiracy theory has won. It's like a forest fire that can only be put out one square inch at a time, or all at once, and so can never be put out.

[Eddie Teach]

There are no Satanic cults out there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Set

You used as an example a group that says they are not a satanic cult.

Read the description of how it was founded.

[Admiral Yi]

My favorite line about conspiracy theories was called "the O.J. Simpson defense."  The belief that the absence of proof of a conspiracy proves how effective the conspiracy was.

[Zoupa]

My favorite line about conspiracy theories was called "the O.J. Simpson defense."  The belief that the absence of proof of a conspiracy proves how effective the conspiracy was.

I was reminded of https://youtu.be/34Em8BkZYnI

[grumbler]

There are no Satanic cults out there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Set

You used as an example a group that says they are not a satanic cult.

Read the description of how it was founded.

It's a spinoff of another explicitly non-satanic-cult movement. 

[Eddie Teach]

The founder claimed to have summoned Satan. Good enough for me.

[Valmy]

The founder claimed to have summoned Satan. Good enough for me.

Ok so we found a religion that claims to be satanic. Now all you need to show is that they pose a threat to anybody and have cultic tendencies. I mean why would we panic just because 100 or so kooks are doing weird esoteric woowoo shit?

Satanism is supposed to mean child abuse. That is what Satanic panic is about.

[viper37]

Further I have to disagree with your main point here. You are at least a fan of the Roman Catholic Church. Was it the case that abuse was solely carried out by bishops? No. Priests and other low level people carried out a ton of abuse and were protected. And this goes on in all kinds of institutions throughout our society.

IIRC, the abuse was committed by priests, who may have become bishops later on, but by this time, I'm not entirely sure they were still committing abuse.  The bishops' sin was to cover the priests by shuffling them from parish to parish instead of going to the authorities.

And it is certainly not that we just don't fucking care about children and just worship teachers and janitors and child care workers and abusive parents or whomever else might be doing this. Abusing children is one of the most abhorrent acts you can do and generates an instant emotional reaction from people, which is why it is forming the basis of this conspiracy theory. Because it has emotional power. But this power also makes it hard to confront.

I think there's a difference in believing a victim and alerting the authorities of suspected abuse (say, a teacher, talking to her student, realizes there's something wrong going on at home who refers the situation to child services) and believing in a wild conspiracy involving an international paedophile ring of men and women of power.

I think America is found of such conspiracy theories as fiction, it is often a recurring theme in movies&tv shows, especially a conspiracy at the highest levels of the government, conspiring against individuals, or against the State.

But just as we have a strong emotional to child sex abuse we also have a really hard time understanding it and dealing with it. And our whole society is kind of built on adults caring for and being responsible for children. Further, children have a hard time communicating what is happening to them and abusive adults are very good at controlling them. It is really complicated and difficult to deal with.

I think the key here is sex-ed.  Quebec changed its approach to sex-ed teaching a few years ago, and I really wonder (and certainly hope) it well help children understand that was his happening to them ain't their fault and ain't normal behavior they should just endure.  The sexual abuse part is thought from the early ages of elementary school, and it evolves with the age of the kids.

I think society DOES have a big problem letting elites get away with using their power to take advantage of adults. Like if we hear Prince Doofus, or whomever, has a whole string of affairs with his staff or whatever we might just be like 'Hey well it is good to be the Prince' or whatever. Or at least we did until recently. But I have a hard time imaginging the 'Prince Doofus is luring children back to his castle to have sex with them' being widely publicly accepted. But I don't live in the UK so maybe everybody would be cool with it...but I doubt it.

Well, Michael Jackson was still very popular after the first allegations...

I don't know.  the way I see it, is (collectively, as a society, in our countries), we care deeply about our children.  The ones we know of, the ones we've held in our arms, the ones we talk to regularly.  But others?  We kinda push it away, like we don't want to hear about it, because we kind tell ourselves that's it's not our responsibility to intervene there.  Like you said, we expect parents to take care of their children, and I think sometimes we figure that if a kid ends up in a bad place, it's the fault of the parent, and not society at large, so we're not really committing actions to really fight against the root cause.
I've talked about sex-ed above and I think it's a good example: there was a lot of... non gentle debate on this issue.  Lots of teachers did not want to teach this subject, lots of parents wanted to forbid school to teach this to their kids...  But it's kinda the basis of everything, empowering the child to understand his/her body, determining if a relationship is abusive or not and taking steps to be protected by others when it happens.

Yet, lots of people are blinded at that and don't want to hear about it....

It's like women and sexual abuse.  Whenever the subject appears, I always see the same comment over&over: It's up to fathers to teach their sons to respect women...  Society has no role to play whatsoever, schools is absent, only parents are there...  I think instead of this wishful thinking, we should teach girls from the earliest age that it could happen, and they should feel no fear and no shame of reporting it to their parents/family/superior/police depending on the context. 

The biggest problem in sexual harassment/assault is how long many women will wait to finally report it, and ater 20-25 years, it's extremely hard to find witness with a clear memory of events, who could place the accused in a relevant time and space to try and determine their guilt.

In any case, for the young women I know, it's the message I've told them after reading an horrible story harassment in my industry: if it happens, don't hesitate.  Maybe you won't be believed, or maybe you'll be believed and the bastard will still get away with it, but there's a trace somewhere of the accusations.  If it happens to another women, his prior accusations of the same type will resurface during an investigation/trial and there's an increased chance of nailing him then.

[viper37]

The founder claimed to have summoned Satan. Good enough for me.

Ok so we found a religion that claims to be satanic. Now all you need to show is that they pose a threat to anybody and have cultic tendencies. I mean why would we panic just because 100 or so kooks are doing weird esoteric woowoo shit?

Oh how far have we fallen...  Not so long ago, we would have burnt them at the stake for looking weird, now we simply don't care they have different beliefs   So sad!

Satanism is supposed to mean child abuse. That is what Satanic panic is about.

Wasn't it about human sacrifice too?  Oh, and heavy metal music with subliminal messages.  That was drilled over&over into us.  And the infamous trial of Judas Priest.  And my mom freaking out about my music...
God, sometimes, I wonder how I survived through the 80s