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Most successful military projects

Started by Maladict, April 22, 2020, 09:44:46 AM

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The Minsky Moment

I'm far from an expert on fighter jets, but some of the MiG series (17? 21?) seem to have successful production history and reasonable costs, even if they tended to get shot down from time to time by Israeli pilots.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Maladict


Iormlund

Quote from: Maladict on April 22, 2020, 09:44:46 AM
This might be more of a challenge. What military investments/programs paid off well beyond expectations? Again post WW2.

The B-52 was mentioned in the other thread, the A-10 might be another contender?

This one is a way in the future, but I'd nominate the autonomous car. While looking for ways to automate military logistics, the DARPA Challenge seems to have boosted the field significantly.

Razgovory

Quote from: Maladict on April 22, 2020, 02:52:59 PM
GPS


Good one.  The most successful military projects are ones that are not only useful to the military but become useful for civilian life.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

11B4V

Quote from: The Brain on April 22, 2020, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 22, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
I'll see you the AK-47, and raise you the Lee-Enfield rifle.  First developed in the late 19th century, main British and commonwealth rifle in both world wars.  It was retired in Canada by the Canadian Rangers two years ago.  Copies are still to this day being used in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Post WW2? :hmm:

Bah,
Pre WW2 the Mauser rifle. Lee Enfield was a much weaker action.

WW2 the M1 garand.

Post WW2 the AK 47
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

grumbler

F-4 Phantom.

F-16 falcon (still on production 47 years after the first one flew).

The K-Bar knife was late WW2, but still in production for the US military.

The Arleigh Burke class destroyers seem to have been very successful, still in production 39 years after the first ship entered service (maybe a record for a warship class).

The Nimitz Class carriers were in production for 41 years.

The Romeo class submarine still has two dozen or examples still in service 63 years after the first tasted salt water, outliving not only its successor, but it's successor's successor.

The Israeli Merkava tank is still in production 41 years after first seeing service (probably a record for a tank).

NAVSTAR/GPS is the big one, though.

The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Barrister

Quote from: 11B4V on April 22, 2020, 05:26:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 22, 2020, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 22, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
I'll see you the AK-47, and raise you the Lee-Enfield rifle.  First developed in the late 19th century, main British and commonwealth rifle in both world wars.  It was retired in Canada by the Canadian Rangers two years ago.  Copies are still to this day being used in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Post WW2? :hmm:

Bah,
Pre WW2 the Mauser rifle. Lee Enfield was a much weaker action.

WW2 the M1 garand.

Post WW2 the AK 47

But that's just it - the Lee-Enfield spanned all three periods.  That kind of longevity counts for something.

(and I know the risks of debating military arms with an ex-army soldier, but I'm going to chance it anyways)
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

11B4V

#22
Quote from: Barrister on April 22, 2020, 09:36:35 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 22, 2020, 05:26:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 22, 2020, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 22, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
I'll see you the AK-47, and raise you the Lee-Enfield rifle.  First developed in the late 19th century, main British and commonwealth rifle in both world wars.  It was retired in Canada by the Canadian Rangers two years ago.  Copies are still to this day being used in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Post WW2? :hmm:

Bah,
Pre WW2 the Mauser rifle. Lee Enfield was a much weaker action.

WW2 the M1 garand.

Post WW2 the AK 47

But that's just it - the Lee-Enfield spanned all three periods.  That kind of longevity counts for something.

(and I know the risks of debating military arms with an ex-army soldier, but I'm going to chance it anyways)

I can see your point but the Mauser spanned just as long. Major innovations, stripper clip loading and controlled round feed. The Enfield was a good rifle to be sure, but not the success the Mauser was and is.

There is a reason the mauser action way outstripped the Enfield in the civilian sector too. It is still copied and also made by Mauser to this day and the Enfield isn't.

M24 series
vz. 24/vz. 33
Type 24 rifle
M1903 Springfield
Pattern 1914 Enfield
M1917 Enfield
Arisaka Type 38/Type 99
M48 Mauser
Kb wz. 98a/Karabinek wz. 1929
FR8

Modern hunting/sporting rifles like the Parker Hale, Holland and Holland, CZ 550, Heym Express Magnum, Winchester Model 70, Mauser M 98, etc. Modern sniper rifles like the GOL Sniper Magnum and Zastava M07. Versions of the Mauser action designed prior to the Gewehr 98's introduction, such as that of the Spanish/Swedish Mauser rifles and carbines, lack the third locking lug and feature a "cock on closing". It was the most copied bolt action rifle.

There's a reason why the British and American got the snot shot out of them in the Boer War and Spanish American War respectively. Their opponents were using Mausers.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

11B4V

#23
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2020, 12:15:00 PM
AK-47 and successors for enduring popularity maybe. Origin is arguably WWII though.  :hmm:

Yes the German StG 44 and M1 Garand. Here's a good article.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/05/05/rifle-paternity-test-pinning-down-the-m1-garands-influence-on-the-ak/

The M1 Garand definitely laid ground for today's generation of automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

11B4V

Quote from: grumbler on April 22, 2020, 08:32:39 PM
F-4 Phantom.

F-16 falcon (still on production 47 years after the first one flew).

The K-Bar knife was late WW2, but still in production for the US military.

The Arleigh Burke class destroyers seem to have been very successful, still in production 39 years after the first ship entered service (maybe a record for a warship class).

The Nimitz Class carriers were in production for 41 years.

The Romeo class submarine still has two dozen or examples still in service 63 years after the first tasted salt water, outliving not only its successor, but it's successor's successor.

The Israeli Merkava tank is still in production 41 years after first seeing service (probably a record for a tank).

NAVSTAR/GPS is the big one, though.

Nah, I'd argue the T-72
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Valmy

11B4V, what do you think of the Mannlicher compared to the Mauser?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Brain

The Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle is still in production, after 70+ years.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Maladict


11B4V

Quote from: Maladict on April 23, 2020, 02:35:31 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 22, 2020, 11:15:01 PM

Nah, I'd argue the T-72

Wow, they're still making them?

Don't know. I'd argue the T72 is far more successful than the Merkava
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

The Brain

I'm not sure exactly what the expectations were in each case, but for several countries that developed nuclear weapons after WW2 those weapons have certainly been very successful (they may also have been expensive, but the rewards are also great). Just after WW2 it wasn't clear that the family of nuclear states would remain so small, but since it is having nuclear weapons pretty much guarantees Significant Power status.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.