The Old World, a new Civ-like from Soren Johnson

[Solmyr]

Sounds like I need to play this.

[crazy canuck]

And, ironically, everything in my approach is about building up an army strong enough to take out a rival and win... except when I was just about ready to kick off the war I had second thoughts.

My preferred targets were kind of out of reach, adding too much risk. I was at peace with my neighbours and I prefer not breaking a peace agreement.

I was being indecisive, when I realized I could just squeeze out a points victory by building the last available wonder and investing heavily in (hitherto) ignored culture buildings to push my last few developing cities into strong culture.

It made the last 15 turns a bit dull compared to the full engagement the previous 125 turns required... which is why I suppose they have the setting for turning the AI extra aggressive when you're close to victory.

This cultural victory, by developing the levels of the cities, is the route I usually try to take.

But I haven't tried the higher difficulty levels yet and I'm glad to hear that it is viable in those settings.

[mongers]

I really need to sit down and give this game a go.

[Jacob]

So it turns out that there's enough difference between the culture that I'm getting my ass kicked on a Roman start on "the Great"

I'll have to keep poking at it.

[Jacob]

This cultural victory, by developing the levels of the cities, is the route I usually try to take.

But I haven't tried the higher difficulty levels yet and I'm glad to hear that it is viable in those settings.

Yeah, I think it is - but I expect you still have to commit heavily to the military simply so the others don't invade you. That, or massive Caravan spam / diplomats / an economy able to support paying tribute I suppose.

[Syt]

I need to get back to this. It's one of the few 4X games where I actually enjoyed playing the scenarios/campaigns.

[Jacob]

Got trounced in five or six starts last night Brutal random maps didn't help. Nor did having internal rebellion + 4 unit tribal raid on turn 15 or so

Going to try again as Rome. "The Great" difficulty, strong barbarians, no advantages or initial boost for AI, aggressive AI (they'll come after you if you're close to winning). However, I'll try the "Imperium RomanumO" map, which will give me the advantage of knowing where everything is (more or less) and hopefully room to expand into Celtic and Germannic Europe without it being too wild.

... though we'll see if starting wars with the tribes right off the bat is as manageable as on regular barbarian settings.

[crazy canuck]

I think with Rome you need to go full expansion to take advantage of the perks of its civilization and tribal bonuses.  Kind of the exact opposite of say Carthage - my favourite route to cultural victories because, as you noted above, I can afford to pay everyone off. 

[Jacob]

I've been getting fucking trounced. The Greeks are clearing tribal sites at a solid pace while I'm just drowning in tribal raids and tribal invasions.

Maybe I'll turn tribe strength down to normal. The +1 fatigue and +10% war chance has been killing me.

I do really enjoyo Carthage as well, but I play them very expansionary as well - basically I roll up to a tribal site with a unit (or maybe two) and just buy the other ones, allowing me to take the site easily. Lots of fun.

The problem is in the end game when you have 20-30-40 tribal units in your army. They're just not as good as regular units.

[Jacob]

Sounds like I need to play this.

I think you should. It's a good game

[Jacob]

So I finally got my second victory on "the Great", this time using Romans with the maximum number of opponents.

I turned Barbarian aggression down to normal again, because using "stronger barbarians" had me completely choked by the early mid-game in my previous tries.

I did have aggressive AI on, which made the end game more spicy.

I had a large number of aborted/ failed games between this one and my last victory, and again geography was a key determinant. I ended up going back to the mediterranean map (I forget what it's called). There were two key geographical elements to succeeding in my games:

1) A good starting location - appropriate starting resources (i.e. few special resources that require additional tech to exploit, good quarrying / mining/ and food growing locations available near the first three city sites); and no rivals starting right up in my face (unless they can be hemmed in very quickly).

2) Once my empire was established, I had very defensible borders. North was pure desert and the edge of the maps (still a source of tribal raids), while East and West were mountain ranges, each with a single mountain pass (both of which saw extensive bloodshed over the years). The South was open coast line, but the AI doesn't seem to go all in on amphibious invasions, thank goodness (though I did have a strategy for dealing with it, even if it didn't get tested).

I typically try to play aggressively expansionistic in the early game, to get more city sites - but in spite of my best efforts I only ended up with 13 cities. Persia also had 13 and Carthage 11, so I never built up the lead that I usually go for.

If the geography hadn't worked out, I don't think I would've made it.

Unlike my Persia game, I never got into position to have a superior military. I was often lagging behind and at best was at par with my serious rivals in terms of military strength. I was significantly behind in terms of military tech, but I still made it. A big part of this was that I got barracks and archery ranges up much later than I prefer, but between the random draws and immediate short term priorities that's just how it worked out.

Also in contrast to the Persia game I went single religion and monotheism (I didn't establish my own paganism). It made managing my families significantly easier as everyone was the same faith. On the flipside, I put much more effort into building city happiness features (buildings and specialists) in the mid to late game. This is in contrast to my Persia game, where I went with polytheism and divine rule, building three or all four temples in every city for happiness and production boosts.

The game felt very different than the last victory, and I'm definitely going back for another kick.

[mongers]

So I finally got my second victory on "the Great", this time using Romans with the maximum number of opponents.
.....
The game felt very different than the last victory, and I'm definitely going back for another kick.

Nice AAR Jacob.

[Solmyr]

Sounds like I need to play this.

I think you should. It's a good game

I tried it out and good hooked. Still fairly uncertain about strategies for this, but played through the first learning game as Babylon and won on points.

[Jacob]

I tried it out and good hooked. Still fairly uncertain about strategies for this, but played through the first learning game as Babylon and won on points.

I think there's enough variables in play that there aren't just a few dominant strategies - or if there is there's enough variability that you still have to trim them depending on specifics.

[Jacob]

So I finally got my second victory on "the Great", this time using Romans with the maximum number of opponents.
.....
The game felt very different than the last victory, and I'm definitely going back for another kick.

Nice AAR Jacob.

Thanks