The movement to end Canada

[Oexmelin]

Like right-wing Albertan?

[Camerus]

Heh, outside of Edmonton, probably so, sadly.

[Barrister]

Like right-wing Albertan?

Sadly after we elected an NDP government, "right-wing" and "Albertan" are no longer synonymous.

[Sheilbh]

Would a broad assessment lead to the conclusion that the Trudeau government has handled aboriginal affairs well?

No, it's just a shot at the recurring tendency to dismiss "left-academic" as somehow disconnected silly-talk.

From my experience, which is limited to a BA doing English - but I really enjoyed theory - the left academics tend to be the most obviously cohesive and direct. I can't think of many easier to read critics/theorists than Terry Eagleton, say.

[OttoVonBismarck]

So at the end of the day how different is this then from the shared sovereignty rights recognized tribes have in the United States? Seems like maybe making mountains of molehills.

[viper37]

So ultimately there was a case in the late 90s called Delgamuukw that made it to the Supreme Court. 

that's the '97 one, right?  IIRC, that decision is technically obiter dicta, no?
IIRC, it was referenced in a 2014 judgement that clarified it a bit, but I'm not sure I understand that sparrow test part.

Tsilhqot'in Nation v British Columbia

Aboriginal title

The court held that Aboriginal title constitutes a beneficial interest in the land, the underlying control of which is retained by the Crown.[4] Rights conferred by Aboriginal title include the right to decide how the land will be used; to enjoy, occupy and possess the land; and to proactively use and manage the land, including its natural resources.[5] But, the court set out a Sparrow-style mechanism by which the Crown can override Aboriginal title in the public interest:
[list=1]
   

• the Crown must have carried out consultation and accommodation;
     
• the Crown's actions must have been supported by a compelling and substantial objective; and
     
• the Crown's action must have been consistent with its fiduciary obligation to the Aboriginal body in question

Does that mean all 3 conditions have to be met?  And what does #3 mean, really?

[viper37]

Unfortunately for Trudeau, many indigenous people have reached a similar conclusion - that Trudeau is all talk.

I feel more&more indigenous everyday that goes by.   

In a sense, the rights and wrongs of the current clash don't really matter; the pipeline thing is just a catalyst. It is more "about" a sense that the government simply isn't concerned to do anything about the many grievances that are outstanding. 

There's part of that.  The other part is the ill defined power sharing of heriditary chiefs vs elected council.  In some places, it works well.  In some other places, there is clarity on what an hereditary chief is.  On some others, they've been abolished, only the elected council stands.  And we have what we have here: both groups totally disagree on what they should do and there's no tradition, "Canadian" or indigenous that says one is right and the other is wrong.

It's a mess that should have been clarified a while ago, but I feel like many indigenous nations were never really that eager to revisit these definitions on who holds power over what.

[viper37]

Most of southern Quebec is unceded land. Don't think the French bothered with that.

We should give the Mohawk Lasalle, on the condition that they never again blockade the railroad or the Mercier bridge in the area.

[Malthus]

So at the end of the day how different is this then from the shared sovereignty rights recognized tribes have in the United States? Seems like maybe making mountains of molehills.

The only difference is that the government here has managed to spectacularly trip over this particular mole-hill recently.

[Malthus]

Would a broad assessment lead to the conclusion that the Trudeau government has handled aboriginal affairs well?

No, it's just a shot at the recurring tendency to dismiss "left-academic" as somehow disconnected silly-talk.

I have no problem making fun of lawyering. Some of the contempt lawyering receives is deserved. 

Lawyering has tons of problems - a tendency to replace thought with jargon, a focus on impenetrable reasoning over sense, decision-makers who allow their desired conclusions to drive their reasoning, costs that put participation out of reach of the ordinary person, etc.

Many of the problems similar to those that afflict the humanities, in fact. 

[crazy canuck]

So at the end of the day how different is this then from the shared sovereignty rights recognized tribes have in the United States? Seems like maybe making mountains of molehills.

Depends on what you mean by "this" but whether you are referring to land which is claimed or claims which have been recognized either through treaty or court action, there are significant differences.  That is a long discussion.

[OttoVonBismarck]

So at the end of the day how different is this then from the shared sovereignty rights recognized tribes have in the United States? Seems like maybe making mountains of molehills.

Depends on what you mean by "this" but whether you are referring to land which is claimed or claims which have been recognized either through treaty or court action, there are significant differences.  That is a long discussion.

I feel like that would require me to care at all about native issues, which alas I do not .

[crazy canuck]

So at the end of the day how different is this then from the shared sovereignty rights recognized tribes have in the United States? Seems like maybe making mountains of molehills.

Depends on what you mean by "this" but whether you are referring to land which is claimed or claims which have been recognized either through treaty or court action, there are significant differences.  That is a long discussion.

I feel like that would require me to care at all about native issues, which alas I do not .

Then my simple answer to your simple question is no.  Not at all alike.

[The Minsky Moment]

Would a broad assessment lead to the conclusion that the Trudeau government has handled aboriginal affairs well?

No, it's just a shot at the recurring tendency to dismiss "left-academic" as somehow disconnected silly-talk.

In this case, I think both the lawyers and the academics have a contribution to make.  Because at the root of the dispute (and many others) are the unresolved problems that arise from adapting the legal-academic concept of indivisible sovereignty to modern-day democracies, particularly in the context of federalist and settler states like the US and Canada.