Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Valmy]

A Western schism 

Or maybe even better... an Antipope 

Imagine the gaudiness of a Trumpist American Antipope

Doubtful they will adopt that particular style unless it is literally Trump himself.

[Barrister]

A Western schism 

Or maybe even better... an Antipope 

Imagine the gaudiness of a Trumpist American Antipope

I'm thinking camo vestments and AR-15s.

[Valmy]

A Western schism 

Or maybe even better... an Antipope 

Imagine the gaudiness of a Trumpist American Antipope

I'm thinking camo vestments and AR-15s.

Yep. Emblazoned with eagles.

[viper37]

The Archbishop who ministers to US military personnel released a statement that says that although the Church has declared the COVID vaccines to be morally permissible, an individual believer may nonetheless exercise a sincere "religious belief" against taking the vaccine:

https://files.milarch.org/archbishop/abp-statement-on-covid19-vaccines-and-conscience-12oct2021.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1EfGFIe-ZsPlRQfjiOX8t7ms6q7ZnLHVknr6q2ByjIP2DYEMTCz0ZAIno

Can someone familiar with Catholic doctrine explain this me?  The Archbishop's reasoning seems to be based on the alleged "sanctity of conscience".  That seems to be at odds with what I understand to be Church doctrine and practice - e.g. what if one's conscience forms a moral belief in the exercise of bodily autonomy by aborting a pregnancy? - and if taken to its logical conclusion - would reduce all individualized beliefs of conscience to religious beliefs.

The issue came back when the government of Canada announced it would grant a religious exemption to its employees who refuse the mandatory vaccination.

The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled twice on this, with two different rulings.  The oldest ones says to be considered "sincere", your believe needs to be inline with that your whole religious communities. In that case, a Catholic could not refuse the vaccine on religious grounds.

The second ruling contradicts the first one in that it says a belief does not have to be shared with the whole community to be sincere, the sincerity of it must be demonstrated on other grounds.  According to that view, a practicing, since Catholic could be exempted from the required vaccination.

Interesting times for lawyers, I guess.

As for the Catholic church itself, it is pretty loose on the individual belief of its adherents, unlike in the not so distant past where priest would tour their parish to remind women of their marital duties toward creating & expanding a family.  There is no purity test when you attend mass.  You must be baptized and have had your communion sacrament to participate in the communion, but no one scans your QR-code to verify this...  In the past, a priest would have known all of his parishioners, nowadays, it would be doubtful in occidental countries.

What the Church tries to do is enforce its doctrine through bishops and archbishops.  Indirect rule.  Quebec and France are mostly laxed about many tenants of the doctrine, like on abortion issues.  While Brazil and African countries will be stricter on this issue.  That means a woman having an abortion could be excommunicated by the bishop of her area (most likely) in Brazil, while a woman having had an abortion in Quebec or France would still be welcome to participate in the eucharist.

The Pope does not intervene at the individual level.  I mean, not anymore.
And even for churches deviating from standard practices, like where people engaged in ritual cruxifiction on Easter, it's unlikely to intervene other than to recommend people don't do that.

A politician in Brazil speaking in favor of abortion could be excommunicated, I guess, but no one in Quebec or even backwater canadian provinces would be excomunicated for speaking as such. In any case, such matters wouldn't come to the attention of the Pope itself.  It would be handled at local level.

[viper37]

It won't be anywhere near as cool as Italian medieval shenanigans.

It's only cool because we didn't live through it.  Like studying the US Civil War is cool.  Debating on it is cool. Living through it?  No way.

[Valmy]

It won't be anywhere near as cool as Italian medieval shenanigans.

It's only cool because we didn't live through it.  Like studying the US Civil War is cool.  Debating on it is cool. Living through it?  No way.

Fair enough. Maybe somebody will someday look back at the culture war with great fascination.

But I don't think so. It seems as tiresome as the Lutheran v Catholic shit in 19th century Germany. The intricate interests tugging around the papacy in old Italy seem at least colorful.

[Sheilbh]

Fair enough. Maybe somebody will someday look back at the culture war with great fascination.

But I don't think so. It seems as tiresome as the Lutheran v Catholic shit in 19th century Germany. The intricate interests tugging around the papacy in old Italy seem at least colorful.

That's just distance.

I mean it's like when you read about any 19th century British politician (even moreso in the 18th century) there's about 50% of stuff that is recognisable as political issues that continue to matter: tax, social reform, foreign policy etc. And then the other half is about the role of the CofE and disestablishment or not and is it acceptable to found the Maynooth seminary etc. I think we've always had culture wars to an extent whether it's Whig v Tory (about the role of the church and the crown), crown v country, defenders of the established church v antagonists etc.  Arguably it's the 20th century interlude of class based politics that's the exception

In a way one of America's founding myth is the ultimate culture war of puritans so enraged by the degeneracy of society around them that they flee to a new world.

[Valmy]

In a way one of America's founding myth is the ultimate culture war of puritans so enraged by the degeneracy of society around them that they flee to a new world.

Yes and it is not exactly riveting stuff. So likewise I am not sure future people will find it exciting or interesting.

[Jacob]

Looks like Russia is seeing a rapid increase in cases right around now.

[DGuller]

Looks like Russia is seeing a rapid increase in cases right around now.

It's more like a consistently high level than a rapid increase, they've been breaking their Covid death record little by little almost every day for a month now.  Russian statistics are too well-behaved to have rapid increases or decreases, that's the one advantage they have over real statistics.

[Barrister]

Looks like Russia is seeing a rapid increase in cases right around now.

It's more like a consistently high level than a rapid increase, they've been breaking their Covid death record little by little almost every day for a month now.  Russian statistics are too well-behaved to have rapid increases or decreases, that's the one advantage they have over real statistics.

Sounds like they have fairly low vaccination rates.  Makes sense - I'm pretty sure Russians trust in government is pretty low these days.

[DGuller]

Sounds like they have fairly low vaccination rates.  Makes sense - I'm pretty sure Russians trust in government is pretty low these days.

I think there is more to it than that, there is almost a degenerate risk-seeking attitude to such things in the culture, as well as extreme conspiracy theory thinking.  Russians also tend to believe that only imbeciles take a flu vaccine.  Skepticism and lack of critical thinking are a deadly mix.

[Barrister]

Well thank goodness - it looks like we are starting to come out of this 4th wave:



Now this is new infections - numbers in hospital are just starting to come down, and daily deaths are still quite high.  But we're moving in the right direction.

[Jacob]

Good news!

[The Minsky Moment]

In a way one of America's founding myth is the ultimate culture war of puritans so enraged by the degeneracy of society around them that they flee to a new world.

America has many founding myths and they are each quite mythological.  The first permanent English colony in America was founded by Church of England folk under a corporate charter for a profit making enterprise.  The second (Plymouth) was founded by a group of English immigrants to Holland (where they enjoyed complete religious freedom).  The settlement of the Massachusetts Bay Colony after that was prompted not so much by concerns over the "degeneracy of society" as the political instability resulting from parliamentary dissolution and the loss of status that resulted for provincial Puritans.  John Winthrop's "City on a Hill" has been made famous by both Reagan and Obama in celebrated speeches that used the idea to convey a meaning virtually the opposite of that which Winthrop expressed in his sermon.