This is how society dies

[Sheilbh]

If it's someone else's responsibility to make sure you achieve it seems like that eliminates the meaning of achievement, the pride of accomplishment.

Very alien attitude to me - though I've never been big on that sort of stuff

[The Brain]

If it's someone else's responsibility to make sure you achieve it seems like that eliminates the meaning of achievement, the pride of accomplishment.

Very alien attitude to me - though I've never been big on that sort of stuff

I'm sure one day you will achieve something.

[crazy canuck]

If it's someone else's responsibility to make sure you achieve it seems like that eliminates the meaning of achievement, the pride of accomplishment.

There is a lot of space between the individual being solely responsible for their own success (the view expressed by Meri's Midwest friend) and individual success being responsibility of someone else.   The American ethos of rugged individualism seems to reject the middle ground of providing assistance for an individual to succeed for too readily.

From personal experience my sense of achievement and pride of accomplishment of coming from a poor family to where I am now is not diminished in the slightest by having public health care, a subsidized university education and all kinds of moral and practical assistance along the way.

[crazy canuck]

How did the English speaking world end up like the new Soviet Union?


Answer, it didn't.  Look at Canada and New Zealand.... 

[Sheilbh]

How did the English speaking world end up like the new Soviet Union?


Answer, it didn't.  Look at Canada and New Zealand.... 

Yeah I mean I don't even recognise much of the stuff about the UK given, you know, the NHS, state education etc which are all very popular and funded by tax. The stuff about life-crippling debt for example is also just not true.

I think he's writing from the US and doing the whole Trump = Brexit thing and then saying the underlying cause and issues must be the same. Which I don't think is terrifically accurate.

[merithyn]

If it's someone else's responsibility to make sure you achieve it seems like that eliminates the meaning of achievement, the pride of accomplishment.

Does it really, though? I mean, you still have to do the work. You still have to make the changes. You still have to be the one to make things happen. You're just not doing it completely alone. There's support, help, and guidance.

I don't think that diminishes the sense of accomplishment. I think it enhances it.

[merithyn]

How did the English speaking world end up like the new Soviet Union?


Answer, it didn't.  Look at Canada and New Zealand.... 

Yeah I mean I don't even recognise much of the stuff about the UK given, you know, the NHS, state education etc which are all very popular and funded by tax. The stuff about life-crippling debt for example is also just not true.

I think he's writing from the US and doing the whole Trump = Brexit thing and then saying the underlying cause and issues must be the same. Which I don't think is terrifically accurate.

He's a Brit with Pakistani parents. It's clear from his writing that he really doesn't understand the US at all. I'd hoped he had more insight in the UK. Guess not.

[merithyn]

If it's someone else's responsibility to make sure you achieve it seems like that eliminates the meaning of achievement, the pride of accomplishment.

There is a lot of space between the individual being solely responsible for their own success (the view expressed by Meri's Midwest friend) and individual success being responsibility of someone else.   The American ethos of rugged individualism seems to reject the middle ground of providing assistance for an individual to succeed for too readily.

Exactly.

[Razgovory]

The  historical comparisons are off, especially the Soviet Union, Europe is seen with way too rosy glasses, there is some considerable hyperbole. That said, some of what the article is about matches my impression. I don't really understand the deep mistrust of the state in the US and why people seem to be willing to vote for even less public good compared to private wealth aggregation.

It does seem to undermine the argument that nobody notices what is destroying Anglo-American society when the author ignores or doesn't know about the same problems that plague Europe.

The US has faced these problems before, in the late 19th century and the early 20th century.

[Sheilbh]

The  historical comparisons are off, especially the Soviet Union, Europe is seen with way too rosy glasses, there is some considerable hyperbole. That said, some of what the article is about matches my impression. I don't really understand the deep mistrust of the state in the US and why people seem to be willing to vote for even less public good compared to private wealth aggregation.

I think there's a bit of a shift in the US? I've read about people voting for higher taxes to pay teachers for example and understand there's been a huge reaction against the extreme anti-statist politics in places it's actually been implemented - like Kansas(?).

[saskganesh]

Canada is too French to count as part of the Anglosphere I guess.

As to achievement, everyone has teachers, coaches, mentors, guides, parents ... Except for Randian midwesters, who do everything themselves.

[Iormlund]

If it's someone else's responsibility to make sure you achieve it seems like that eliminates the meaning of achievement, the pride of accomplishment.

Having teachers and mentors robs you of the pride of getting a degree? 

[Josquius]

The hippies went on to be the core of the Thatcher and Reagan revolutions. The younger generation are always more left-wing and more internationalist. It'll be interesting to see if it lasts.

Hippies are a pretty exagated part of the 60s though, especially in the uk.
Even if we stretch the definition to people with hippyish tendencies I don't think you'd be looking at even half the age group in the US.

Younger people have always historically tended to be more left wing. It's why things generally keep moving left. Though I don't think the divide was ever to the level we see today. I would absolutely love to see actual days from elections 50 years ago on breakdown by age.

I think what we are seeing now with the millenials to some extent and very definitely the digital nomads is a completely different over-generation to what came before.
Just as there was a radical break several generations ago with the very emergence of teenagers as a separate thing, today we are seeing a similarly huge transformation.

[The Brain]

If it's someone else's responsibility to make sure you achieve it seems like that eliminates the meaning of achievement, the pride of accomplishment.

Having teachers and mentors robs you of the pride of getting a degree? 

When I was in school it was my responsibility to make sure I achieve a degree. Not the teachers'.

[Iormlund]

When I was in school it was my responsibility to make sure I achieve a degree. Not the teachers'.

And it was the teachers' responsibility to guide you to your goal. As CC said, it's not a black/white situation at all.