Star Wars Megathread

[viper37]

Also I'm adding Hux and Rose to my criminally under-used list, along with Richard E Grant's character.

Haven't watched the film, but the lack of Rose is disappointing.  There was a bunch of psycho-fans that were livid about the introduction of the character.  Like sending death threats and engaging in harassment of the actress type of livid.  Apparently this is in part political as these lunatics keep going on about "Social Justice Warriors" and "Political Correctness".  My guess is that cutting Rose had to do with these fuckwits.

Apparently, it's because they shot her scenes with digital Leia, and digital Leia looked crap, so they cut most of the footage from the movie.

[FunkMonk]

The first 20 minutes or so were dreadful - Star Wars for the ADHD generation.

The rest of the movie had some interesting moments here and there, but overall there was too much that came out of nowhere and too many characters I couldn't give a shit about. They were also way too many fake deaths. In fact, anything that was interesting was basically just relics from the original trilogy.

Overall, I'm not sure which trilogy is worse, the prequels or this one. In most respects 7-9 are superior, but it just seemed way too over the map, bloated and unfocused, and in that respect at least the prequels have the edge.

I 100% agree

The dialogue was horrible in the prequels, but at the same time they've given us such memorable lines as "I am the Senate" and "I hate sand" as well as many, many others.

I can't really think of anything memorable from the sequels. Maybe "It's true, all of it."

[Syt]

"Keep your politics out of my armed insurrections!" - Chewbacca, probably.

[Syt]

Canon history of the Darksaber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s0HPTiqj4M

[Berkut]

OK, went and saw it.

Maybe my expectations were low, but it was really not that  bad.

[Liep]

OK, went and saw it.

Maybe my expectations were low, but it was really not that  bad.

It's pretty good, but most people on languish seem to wish everyone involved with it a painful death.

[Caliga]

Nerds tend to have extreme reactions to all things nerdy, I've found.

[viper37]

Maybe my expectations were low,

that is what it is

[Camerus]

Nerds tend to have extreme reactions to all things nerdy, I've found.

Nah, it's just not a great film.

[Savonarola]

I think that if you judge the latest trilogy on the Joseph Campbell hero's journey; Kylo Ren, rather than Rey is the hero.

[spoiler]According to Campbell the hero needs to somehow overcome a father figure; Ren manages to overcome five.  He kills his father and his master Snope; he leads to the death of Palpatine; tries to kill Luke Skywalker twice, ultimately indirectly causing his death; and he symbolically surpasses Darth Vader by mastering the power Vader could not (saving the woman he loves from death.)  He goes to the "Underworld" of Exegol; saves the mother figure (this is made most obvious when Ben puts his hand over Rey's womb rather than heart to restore her to life.)  While he does gain magical power ("The power to grant boons" as Campbell puts it) he does not return to the land of the living.  So, for that Rey has him beat.

I think Kylo Ren is the most intriguing characters in the Star Wars films; with his obvious internal conflict, his predilection to collect (and kill) father figures and his drive to surpass his grandfather (Rey says that he fears that he'll never be as strong as Darth Vader, and in this film Ren says that he'll complete the work that Darth Vader started.)  This turns to be dramatically ironic; as Ren does indeed surpass Darth Vader and completes his work, but not in the way that he intended.

I think his "Epiphany" scene was poorly handled; presumably the writers had something better, but with Carrie Fisher's death had to work with what they had.[/spoiler]

For these reasons I think this trilogy is better than the prequels and, while this movie was deeply flawed, it wasn't bad.

[Sheilbh]

Also I'm adding Hux and Rose to my criminally under-used list, along with Richard E Grant's character.

Haven't watched the film, but the lack of Rose is disappointing.  There was a bunch of psycho-fans that were livid about the introduction of the character.  Like sending death threats and engaging in harassment of the actress type of livid.  Apparently this is in part political as these lunatics keep going on about "Social Justice Warriors" and "Political Correctness".  My guess is that cutting Rose had to do with these fuckwits.

I think they wanted to please everyone and go back to something solid and safer. Unfortunately some of the TLJ criticism was a bit like the Ghostbusters criticism or, say, Gamergate in that it very quickly zoned in on the women involved. Which is a shame because that was probably awful for them, it wasn't really the issue those critics necessarily had (it was just a reflection of that part of internet outrage culture/their politics/their misogyny) and it meant that when you "fix" the issue it doesn't please anyone.

So I think you're right but it wasn't necessarily conscious on the part of Abrams etc.

I've got an acquaintance who was one of the women journalists targeted in Gamergate and I would love to properly talk to her about it because I think that (and more understanding on sports fandoms) would help me better understand everything going on.

[Berkut]

My son came up with the basic idea as we were talking after the show last night, a better ending than what we had. Something with a little more pathos.

[spoiler]A New Ending to the Last Skywalker

Scene starts with the confrontation with Palpatine on Egilil.

Changes: Rey is not alone, Poe and Finn have come with her having come together to help her confront the Emperor.But they were separated early, and are off doing something else for the start of the scene.

Scene unfolds.

Emperor gives his pitch, and Rey resists the desire to kill him.
Disturbance in the back of the room, as Kylo makes his appearance. Some guards attempt to detain him, but he force pushes them away casually. He has no saber with him.
The Emperor says "Ahhh, the boy has returned again. I was expecting you. Are you here to help your friend, your lover? Will you rule with her?"
Kylo/Ben replies "I am here for you old man, and attempts to force push the Emperor.
Emperor laughs, and casually waves away his attack, and blasts Ben with some force lightning, forcing him to his knees.
Emperor returns to Rey, and says "You will destroy me, you will fulfill your destiny to bring about the rule of the Sith!"
Rey responds "I will NEVER be your Sith, I will never be who you imagine me to be - grandfather! But I will destroy you because the Sith must be destroyed, but it will be for love, not hate! I am Jedi!"
She whips out her saber, and uses it to interrupt the force lightning forcing Ben to his knees. Ben rises, and she reaches behind her, and throws him his mothers saber. They both stand with sabers raised, ready to attack the Emperor. Ready to destroy him together, not from hate, but from compassion.
This will represent the triumph of the Jedi over the Sith.
The emporer laughs. "You fool, you think you together can overcome ME? You can never destroy me, I am the Sith, I am ALL the Sith!" He raises his arms and you can see the tangible power he draws to himself from all the 'ghost Sith' in the surrounding stands.
Rey and Ben attack, and big ass battle ensues. They work together as a team, using the bond that they have developed. But still the Emperor is too strong, with the power he can pull from the ghost Sith, and he begins to overwhelm them.
Emperor cackles "Now you see the power of the Dark Side. You cannot defeat it, you cannot resist it, you cannot do anything but succumb to it, you fools! You are alone, and will die alone, like your friends." This was his plan all along - to lure the children of Skywalker and Palpatine to him, so he could destroy
them and use their deaths to bring himself back to full life.
Poe and Finn burst into the scene. Fin  yells, "They are not alone so long as I am alive" and now it is four against one. Finn is desperately trying to hit the emperor with a melee weapon he grabbed from one of the Sith dudes. Poe is blasting away with his blaster.
The Emperor is momentarily pushed back, and has to go defensive, and the four of them work together to bring him down. He in turn is forced back, down, and appears to be on the verge of destruction. But Finn gets to close, and in a moment the Emperor has his hands against his throat. He raises Finn up in the air, and forcelightning
burns through him. The emperor casually throws his apparently lifeless body aside.
Poe starts shooting at the Emperor blindly, and the Emperor glances at him and says "You fool" and deflects the blaster bolts, one of which hits Ben, knocking him down. He then force imprisons Poe, raising him off the ground in a prison of force lightning. Poe screams in agony.
Finn is dead. Poe is in chains. Ben is down and hurt.

Rey breaks. The death of Finn and the torture of Poe and the forced subjugation of Ben is too much, and she attacks the Emperor. Her hate consumes her, and she becomes incredibly powerful. Her face begins to change, with her veins becoming pronounced in that Sith way.
The power flowing from the ghost Sith begins to flow to her instead of the emperor, and he noticeably weakens.
She attacks the Emperor in a clear rage, her anger giving her power she could never tap before. Her own power and the power she is taking from the Sith now that she has turned has made her a god. She smashes the emperor down, again, and again, and again. Until finally she stands over him.
He is crumpled, defeated.
He breaks. He pleads for mercy, for the mercy of the Jedi. No more.
Rey looks down at him and says "I am what you wanted. I am a Palpatine." And slowly slides her saber into him, almost gently, delighting in his agonized screams. Ben raises himself in the background. He says "Rey?" The emperor dies.

Poe is released from his prison, and falls to the ground. Rey looks at him. "You shall be my first Admiral. You shall lead these fleets (gestures above) to the peace of the galaxy"

Rey turns. Her face is enfused with anger, and power. She looks down at Lukes saber in her hand - raises it up, and concentrates. The saber shimmers...and the blade turns a dark, angry red. She smiles.

Rey gestures, and Poe is released from his prison, and falls to the ground. Rey looks at him. "You shall be my first Admiral. You shall lead these fleets (gestures above) to the peace of the galaxy. Peave under my rule."

Poe responds "I will not trade one despot for another Rey!" She looks at him coldly. "So you shall betray me as well, so be it". She returns him to his prison.

Rey walks to Ben, and this time, she holds out her hand to him. "You were right, you were always right. We were meant to rule together. There will be peace in the galaxy, finally".

Ben looks at her, and takes her outstrectched hand. He knows he is no match for her. She raises him up. "Will you rule by my side? Will you rule by the side of the final Palpatine?"

Finn groggily opens his eyes, badly wounded but not dead. He watches the rest of the scene unfold.

Ben replies "I am the Last Skywalker. I am my fathers son, and my mothers! I am the last Jedi!" and attacks her. She is momentarily surprised by recovers quickly. He cannot defeat her, and his saber blows do not even seem to harm her even when he lands them.
She beats him down until she is pressed up again him, his saber in his hand pinned under her own, and she strikes, cutting off his right hand.
Leias saber falls to the ground, and winks out.
"We could have brought peace, you and I. I gave you what you wanted, what you asked for, and you betrayed me. The old man was right after all, there is only power. If you will not rule with me, I will rule alone" As she prepares to kill him, he pulls the Sith dagger out from his belt with his left hand,
and drives it into her side, openly weeping as he does so. She screams in agony, and immediately falls down. A concussive force emanates from her, blowing outwards, knocking Ben back and as it passes over the ghost Sith, it destroys them completely. Poe is released from his prison, and is blown back against
a pillar, falling unconscious.
Ben crouches over Rey, weeping openly as she bleeds out in his arms. As the light fades from her eyes, she smiles faintly, the marks of the Sith wiping away, so all that is left is Rey.

Finn drags himself over to Ben...."You killed her!" he sobs and hits him in the side of the head with his weapon.

Scene ends.

Open new scene.

Poe is the new leader of the Alliance. He walks down a hall, and into a small cell, where Ben, still badly hurt but with a bandaged hand, sits calmly, manacled. Poe dismisses the guards.

Poe: "They are going through with it. The council is going to execute you tomorrow for killing the last Jedi. Finn's testimony was compelling. And you refused to answer, and demanded that I keep silent about what happened. I cannot let this stand"
Ben: "Of course you can. You are a leader now, and leaders make hard choices. This won't be your last."
Poe: "But why? Why must is be this way? We know the truth of what happened. *I* know the truth. You cannot tell me we must hide the truth!"
Ben: "What is this truth you wish to tell? Which truth? The truth is I have murdered my father, and countless others. I deserve death for my many crimes, and then some. Is that not the truth?"
Poe: "And Rey...she turned. She turned at the end, and would have destroyed us all. What of that truth? Shall we hide that truth as well?"
Ben: "The truth of Rey? The truth is she was the only reason you ever had a chance. The truth is she was the best of all of you. The truth is that power and hate and anger - it is all corrupting, and the truth is that if it could corrupt Rey, it could corrupt anyone. Is that not also the truth?"
Ben: "Do you not see? They were right - they were all right. Obi-wan, Yoda, all of them. Skywalker would bring balance to the force. Not my grandfather, but my mother. Balance. Not the ascendance of the Jedi. Balance."
Ben: "Who was first? The Sith? The Jedi? Does it matter? The Force is balance. If there are Sith, there must be Jedi. If there are Jedi, then how will anyone oppose them except by embracing the Dark Side? Perhaps the galaxy could use a few centuries without either."

Cut to scene as Ben is led to the scaffold. Luke, Rey, Obi-Wan and Yoda stand to the side, watching as he ascends to his death. Obi-wan says to Yoda" "Is he right? Is this the balance sought?" Yoda does not reply.

Fade out.[/spoiler]

[Zoupa]

Just saw it. I was thoroughly unengaged.

Your ending is better Berkut, but Disney would never approve something morally "grey".

[Habbaku]

The only ending Disney will approve is one that sells more merchandise. I expect to see [spoiler]Star Destroyers with the world-destroying cannon and Palpatine Throne Dolls[/spoiler] for sale any day now.

[Valmy]

Well I went to see it because my kids wanted to see it. They liked it so Disney clearly knows its audience. I was glad they liked it and I didn't suffer for nothing. But I couldn't help but notice they haven't mentioned the films since and just went back to doing whatever. The movie did not exactly capture their imagination.

Everything was just so dumb and cringey. I had this show that was my curse back around 2004-2006 when I worked at UT, I would go over to the Campus Gym to work out with all the students and I always seemed to be stuck in front of a TV showing this godawful show show called Charmed. I just loathed this show so much because nothing that happened ever mattered, every single problem would be easily solved and the characters would do dumb shit and it never mattered and anything that could potentially be cool the show would just make stupid. So while I was sitting there watching the film it just occured to me that this new trilogy is this level of writing. It is Charmed for the big screen. But hey people loved Charmed so clearly there is a market for this kind of writing. I expect this film will have its fans, just not me.

One great example from the film was when [spoiler]Rey uses Sith Force Lightening to blow up the Transport that had Chewbacca was on. For a split second I was like "oh now this might be interesting." Of course it didn't matter at all and of course it was made stupid. Later when the Finn and Poe were about to be executed I was like "even if their heads all got shot off it wouldn't matter" and of course something stupid happened that made no sense.[/spoiler]

So yeah I thought it sucked. I know the original two movies had little things that were stupid and whatever but they were decent movies and reasonably competently made. I am not sure which were worse the prequels or the Disney trilogy. They were both bad but for different reasons.