Star Wars Megathread

[Syt]

Btw, on the Children of the Watch helmet rule - I feel getting rid of it will be a major thing some point down the line. And with shared meals being such a cultural staple that we will see a Mando feast at some point. (Probably before all goes to shit again shortly after )


It's really interesting - when the Mandalorians were introduced as pacifists in Clone Wars there was a lot of fan concern/hate, but what they've done with this in terms of story and lore going forward is quite impressive. The current situation also parallels the Mandalorians in Knights of the Old Republic - Mandalorians being scattered into a diaspora, working as mercs and bandits, with Canderous trying to re-unite them under the old virtues.

[celedhring]

The only thing I'm missing is they have never addressed the fact that Bo-Katan was already in a "go back to our roots" splinter mandalorian faction.

Are the Children of the Watch supposed to be related to the Death Watch in some fashion, btw? Their beliefs are much more fleshed out, though.

[Syt]

Well, Deathwatch was, I think, not as fundamentalist as the Children of the Watch. Sure, they wanted Mandalorians to go back to the "old" ways, but essentially I think that meant going back to the old status quo - house politics, infighting, warrior culture on the surface, but with little substance. I feel for Bo-Katan it was mostly about getting her "rightful" place on the throne (or up in the hierarchy) which I guess is why she kept switching factions, mostyl going with what seemed opportunistic for her goals. (I'd have to re-watch all her Clone Wars/Rebels episodes to be sure, though )

The Children of the Watch, IMHO, really wanted to go back to basics - filling the creed with meaning again instead of it being a rite that people recite because it's a tradition, not because they believe in it. Kind of how people might go to church because it's a cultural tradition instead of something they truly believe in.

[Syt]

Article about the parallels between Judaism and Mandalorians, from last year:

https://www.communityreviewhbg.org/voices/rabbis/jewish-parallels-guide-the-mandalorian

By Rabbi Sam Yolen, Congregation Beth Israel, Lebanon

After seeing too many "Baby Yoda" plushies to count, and hearing many rave reviews of Disney Plus' The Mandalorian, I decided to watch the first two seasons of the hit show. I found the mythology of the "Mandalore," to be parallel to Judaism, if not identical in structure to the historical origins of Judaism. For those who haven't yet watched this show, there are spoilers below, so proceed at your own caution.         

To those who may be unfamiliar with the "Star Wars Universe," there are a number of characters to which the main movies follow. These movies articulate the plight of Jedis (good guys) against the Sith (bad guys), most notoriously represented by Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader.

The television show The Mandalorian does away with the major characters and Jedi plots, and instead focuses on a new group of characters, specifically a new humanoid group of people known through their creed as "Mandalorians." Mandalorians, as we learn, come from a destroyed planet called Mandalore, and have their own religious customs that are revealed with each passing episode.

Din Djarin, the Mandalorian we follow, is introduced in the first season as a bounty hunter. He pilots an old ship, The Razorcrest, to be kept off the radar of The First Republic, and is hired as a fighter to bring justice to recalcitrant fugitives at the edge of the galaxy.

Even though Din's primary motivation is money (in the form of "beskar" metal), his overarching code allows him to deny a mission, refuse payment, or even call off the terms of the arrangement if he feels ethically challenged. He does this when expected to traffic the "Baby Yoda'' character, Groku, into the hands of The Empire. As part of their ethics, Mandalorians do not traffic children, and we learn from the approval of his co-religionists when they support Din in a battle, stating succinctly the tagline of his people, "This is the way."

In Judaism, "The Way," is literally translated as "Halakha," and it arbitrates the practice of Jews in terms of mitzvot and one's ability to do teshuvah (repentance). It codifies behavior into a standard that allows Jews to be part of a community, and more realistically allowed to partake in the cultural rituals and celebrations unique to our people.

Judaism is both an ethnicity and a belief, so you can be a cultural Jew without regard to halakha, yet those who choose to identify religiously are eerily mirrored in the ways of Mandalore. This spectrum includes those who are zealous in their practice of religion, like some Mandalorians, to those who have grown apostate like Boba Fett, the beskar-armor-wearing character who could easily be mistaken for an apostate Jew.

Of the examples that link Mandalorians to religiously-practicing Jews, whenever the show's protagonist, Din Djarin, completes a mission for payment in Beskar metal, he gives a sizable portion away to charity. This is a direct corollary to tzedakah which, as tithing stipulates, should be one tenth of one's earnings.

With each mission, a Mandalorian's armory increases - similarly, Jews who practice in community receive more Judaica with each coming-of-age ceremony. First you receive a circumcision, then a Bible, a siddur, a Kiddush cup, Shabbat candlesticks, a tzedakah box, a talit, tefillin, a wedding ring, and more. Each item is a visible representative of mitzvot, just as the Mandalorians' garb is a visible representative of successful missions in providing to their own people.

When it comes to "The Way," some Mandalorians are never allowed to publicly remove their helmet. This infers that eating, sleeping, and intimacy are reserved for relationships beyond the colloquial acquaintance.

In Judaism, a man's yarmulke, or a woman's head covering is similarly reserved for intimate relations. Kosher food prevents religious Jews from sharing meals in unsupervised kitchens. Jewish laws of decorum mean you should never be alone in a room with a stranger. These enforce hard boundaries between the inner and outer limits of a faith-based group, and another indication that Boba Fett could be looked at as a wayward Mandalorian.

Beyond learning that the people of Mandalore are united by creed, and not by ethnicity, and that they follow "The Way," we also learn that their creation story is connected to a massive destruction at the hands of The Empire. Din Djarin's own Mandalorian people survived because they were a zealous religious sect stationed on a satellite Moon of planet Mandalore.

In Judaism, the reason why we have Rabbinic Judaism, and not Priestly Judaism, is because the Roman Persecution destroyed Jerusalem. Only the scholars, saved by Rabbi Yochannan ben Zakkai at Yavneh, avoided the mass culling of the competing Jewish sects. Rabbinic Judaism is thus a response to the massive persecution, and an adaptation to crisis. The plotline of The Mandalorian concurs that religious extremism within sects descending from Mandalore are a direct result of a similar existential crisis.

Lastly, when Din Djarin finally reveals to his sect of Mandalorians that he has (*gasp*) removed his helmet from his head and showed his face to other sentients, he was kicked out of his zealous group.

"How can I repent?" he asks his superior in Episode 5 of The Book of Boba Fett. His authority figure tells him something to the effect of, "Only by submerging yourself in the living waters below the mines of Mandalore." Din Djarin replies, "But Mandalore has been destroyed," thereby removing from Din the chance of ever being restored to his fringe sect.

In Biblical Judaism, repentance is only received once a sacrifice has been made in the Temple. Since the Temple has been destroyed, Rabbinic Judaism has adapted to use prayer, tzedakah, and personal apologies to facilitate repentance. More telling though, the concept of ritual purity is only restored to someone after they submerge in the "living waters" of the mikveh.

Surely the living waters that facilitate the Mandalorians' repentance and the "mayim chayim" (living waters) of Jewish Ritual purity share the same mythic essence in the mind of the show's Jewish creator, Jon Favreau!

Which adds some spice to the fact that Bo-Katan's and Satine's father was Adonai Kryze.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/adonai

Oh, and the shard that Din brought to the Armorer in Ep. 1 of the season? Nerds have transcribed the Mandoa alphabet and determined it's a passage from the book of Exodus:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMandalorianTV/comments/11ezt3d/the_mandoa_text_from_s3_ep_1/



 

[celedhring]

Yeah, Filoni has put on several references to Judaism in his Star Wars stuff.

What I like about the Children of the Watch is the fact that unlike most fantasy movie cults, it makes sense as a real world religion. In the sense that a lot of religious tenets were born as ways to ensure the survival of the community that were sacralized over time. The Way makes sense in that regard.

[viper37]

So, we go from the fall of Lucifer to the Jewish mysticism now?  Interesting!

[crazy canuck]

Very cool. Thanks Syt.

[Syt]

Proof that the internet is literally infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters - someone actually guessed correctly who it was that saved Grogu.

[celedhring]

Ok episode. Not great, but ok. Some decent action involving the Mandalorians, but the show has done better "we need to save this helpless community from villains" episodes in the past.

I feel like they rushed the whole angle of the Armorer being more open to other creeds. Not sure hearing Bo-Katan talking about the mythosaur was quite enough, particularly since she's been such a stickler for the whole helmet thing in the past. - I like the general idea of the season being about Mandalorians finding their place - both as individuals and as a community, I just feel they're rushing this particular point. Maybe there will be some pushback, particularly given the reveal at the end of the episode (I hope they don't cheap out and make it that the Remnant is using beskar armor themselves, which would make sense given they had so much of it)

Also, I know I shouldn't fall for fanservice but Zeb cameo 

[celedhring]

Also, I'm probably being slow, but this episode made me realize that one of the reasons the show feels wonkier this season is that Mando is no longer the protagonist - it's Bo Katan - and the writers haven't been completely able to pilot that successfully. Mando has no arc, which makes the show feel flat when it's centered on him, which is still most of the time. But in fact, he's just there as a catalyst for Bo-Katan to take on the role of unifier.

[Syt]

Bad Batch finale went roughly as I expected it to, though didn't expect to see Eriadu (and Krennic ). Even with AZI-3 being their main hope (because of its knowledge about clones) it seemed a tad stupid to go to Cid's. I liked the cable car sequences. Sorry to see Tech die, but we've so many people in Star Wars "die" only to come back (Gregor, Echo, Maul, Palpatine ....), so without a body I expect him to still show up (maybe as a mangled experiment, à la Echo, or re-cloned). There were rumblings that the female clone tech's NZ accent wasn't an accident, good to see it confirmed. This will be a long wait till S3, though.



I thought Mando was all right. It's good to see the "tribe" come together. Though I'm still not sure what the Armorer's gamble is. I feel she's playing her own game and pulling people's strings to get them to do what she wants them to do. I'm not quite sure how much of her traditions are genuinely felt and how much they are a means to an end. I keep switching between, "She's a cultist, but a true believer" and "She sure is a manipulative schemer" every week.

When she said she thinks Bo-Katan is the one to unite all Mandalorians I half expected her to make her challenge Din for the Darksaber (sure this is coming?), but instead she sent her on a recruiting mission.

The action scene was quite good IMO, good mix of aerial and ground combat. And I loved the little Ugnaught first mate, basically Mr Smee from Peter Pan - that's the kind of pulp I sometimes need in my Star War (and I chuckled at the curse that referenced "Puffer Pigs" from the extremely silly (but canon) appearance of Lando in Star Wars Rebels

I kinda liked the New Republic bits (Zeb! Tim Meadows! ), but it was also a bit "eh" - I liked the scene with Carson Teva showing up at the covert, saying he fought with one of them in the Rebellion. *pause* - me thinking ... "Ok, who? Bo-Katan, maybe? Someone else?" Only to have R5-D4 roll out The spooky scene at the end was good. Though I'm wondering if someone's trying to frame Mandalorians, or if there's still loyal Mandalorians serving the Imperial remnant - Clan Saxon and his Supercommandos, maybe?)

I agree the direction of the show seems a bit weird and aimless at the moment. Of course "The Mandalorian" is fairly ambiguous as a title - is it Din? Grogu? Bo-Katan? The title of Mandalore itself? But Din has been very passive this season - his quests from S1 and 2 are resolved, even visiting Mandalore was quickly wrapped up (and he needed plenty help there, needing to be rescued by Bo-Katan not once but twice). Sure he pushes the plot forward a bit ("Hey, let's help these guys"), but the scope of the show becomes a lot wider and I'm not sure it's a good thing yet? Also, and I've seen this come up in various online comments - it's diving into some characters and history where you almost have to read up on what their deal is - not sure how the whole Bo-Katan, Darksaber and Mandalore stuff comes across if you haven't watched Clone Wars and Rebels where both played major roles in the plot ... I get that they hope to draw people towards watching those shows (or at least the relevant episodes - they do have play lists for those on Disney+, I think), but stuff like that should enhance your experience, not be fundamental in understanding a character's history and motivation. Andor worked much better in that regard - I thought you could probably enjoy those with no or only very basic knowledge of Star Wars lore.

[celedhring]

I don't think understanding the backstory is much of a problem. It's pretty basic stuff - "the Empire devastated our planet, we're now scattered and divided, Bo-Katan tried to take it back before but failed and has lost all hope". They have given all the needed bits when necessary. Actually the biggest sin on thar regard is putting the two Mando episodes in Book of Boba Fett - there's plenty of backstory there.

Also, I don't think there's any duplicity in the Armorer, she's just erratically written 

I agree that the show has gone big and it feels off sometimes. I keep feeling they should just have closed "The Mandalorian" after season 2, and just started a new show "Rise of Mandalore" or whatever to tell this story, and do it with more freedom (i.e. not centering it around Din Djarin when he has little to do). I feel the writers are trying to navigate two different shows in one, and it feels wonky. 

[Syt]

I wish there was a Star Wars "adventure of the week" show at the moment, but I also fear that long form storytelling is so much the norm (and expected by viewers) that having a show like that might be ill received. "But how does it connect to the lore/bigger picture?" Some people were quite unhappy with the perceived "filler" episodes on Bad Batch this season. I shudder to think how X-Files would be received these days, alternating between "monster of the week" and "mythos arc" episodes.

[celedhring]

I wish there was a Star Wars "adventure of the week" show at the moment, but I also fear that long form storytelling is so much the norm (and expected by viewers) that having a show like that might be ill received. "But how does it connect to the lore/bigger picture?" Some people were quite unhappy with the perceived "filler" episodes on Bad Batch this season. I shudder to think how X-Files would be received these days, alternating between "monster of the week" and "mythos arc" episodes.

I thought the first two seasons of Mando threaded that needle very well - although there were also a few complains about "when's the main arc going to progress?".

I also thought the way Andor built its season around 3-episode minisagas was pretty nice, too.

[Syt]

It's kinda like what Clone Wars did. It was very much an anthology show, featuring a wide range of viewpoints, and a mix of standalones and small arcs (2-4 episodes).