How Democracy Dies

[Valmy]

Sheilbh!

[dps]

Hi Sheilbh. Good to see you post again

Indeed.

[Zoupa]

I know, it's very Anglo-Saxon of me not to want to persecute people for their language, race, or religion, but I guess I was just raised wrong.

The delusion is strong in this one.

[crazy canuck]

Hi Sheilbh. Good to see you post again

Indeed.

[Berkut]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/opinion/trump-white-voters.html?fbclid=IwAR1TvQv2ZyVZPhdvDmnK6FDOq8WJz80v2VoQM02pTqW0_fg1S8FT1IRI-Lk


This is really interesting. It doesn't really have any answers though.

But the key take away, I think, is that it isn't just racism in its most insipid form that is driving white voters to Trump. There is more to it than that.

One thing to note:

Most well off, non-college educated whites voted for Trump. This is a group that is traditionally associated with the Democratic Party - think trained white collar tradespeople. Union workers...

Well off, college educated whites did not.

Anyway, there is a lot there, and it is definitely worth a read for those who want to understand this beyond TRUMP SUPPORTERS BAD RACIST.

[garbon]

Their indifference to the racism being propogated under Trump isnt something to celebrate.

[Zoupa]

The article didn't offer much new insight...

The authors tested the questions in a sample of more than 40,000 white voters conducted during the 2016 primary elections by the Cooperative Congressional Election Study.

They found that Trump voters, as opposed to voters supporting other Republican candidates, were "less empathetic (angered by racism), they were more likely to deny Whites have an advantage in America and expressed far more fear of other racial groups."

And yet the author concludes:

And if Democrats want to give themselves the best shot of getting Trump out of the White House, it is toward these voters that they must make concerted efforts at pragmatic diplomacy and persuasion — and show a new level of empathy.

Jesus fucking Christ. It's ALWAYS the Dem's task to reach out to them poor white folks who are just so misunderstood. It's NEVER about the GOP machine feeding fear and gaming the system every way they can.

Bleh. 

[dps]

The article didn't offer much new insight...

The authors tested the questions in a sample of more than 40,000 white voters conducted during the 2016 primary elections by the Cooperative Congressional Election Study.

They found that Trump voters, as opposed to voters supporting other Republican candidates, were “less empathetic (angered by racism), they were more likely to deny Whites have an advantage in America and expressed far more fear of other racial groups.”

And yet the author concludes:

And if Democrats want to give themselves the best shot of getting Trump out of the White House, it is toward these voters that they must make concerted efforts at pragmatic diplomacy and persuasion — and show a new level of empathy.

Jesus fucking Christ. It's ALWAYS the Dem's task to reach out to them poor white folks who are just so misunderstood. It's NEVER about the GOP machine feeding fear and gaming the system every way they can.

Bleh. 

The job of both parties is to win elections.  The Democrats can't win without a decent level of support among non-college educated white males--indeed, as Berkut pointed out, they're one of the traditional pillars of the Democratic coalition. 

[garbon]

What's the solution? Tell them Trumpesque lies about how lovely everything will be for them if the Dems are in power?

[Duque de Bragança]

I know, it's very Anglo-Saxon of me not to want to persecute people for their language, race, or religion, but I guess I was just raised wrong.

The delusion is strong in this one.

I am sure the Irish can confirm about this "Anglo-Saxon" (whatever that means) inclination. 

PS: bienvenue à la maison (des fous ?) Sheilb !

[Tamas]

What's the solution? Tell them Trumpesque lies about how lovely everything will be for them if the Dems are in power?

If they are unresponsive to the substantial improvement in their lot that a non-insane healthcare system would be, then perhaps other economic incentives could be found?

IMHO the "proletariat" is much more suspect to sympathise with the simple messages of fear and comfort of the populist right than the progressive (and thus by nature new and unfamiliar) ideas of the progressive left, and this has been true forever. But in the past, the progressive left was representing tangible economic benefits to the working class (non-slave wages, less inhumane working hours, pension and benefits, etc), that made them the preferred choice DESPITE the progressive political ideas.

But of course with the economic battle of the left largely won decades ago, that incentive just doesn't/didn't exist anymore.

[dps]

What's the solution? Tell them Trumpesque lies about how lovely everything will be for them if the Dems are in power?

I don't know.  Maybe trying to curb the rhetoric about "white privilege" (because the guy making minimum wage or just above it doesn't feel very privileged) and the pseudo-intellectual climate that makes using "white men" as a insult seem like a good idea.

[crazy canuck]

What's the solution? Tell them Trumpesque lies about how lovely everything will be for them if the Dems are in power?

If they are unresponsive to the substantial improvement in their lot that a non-insane healthcare system would be, then perhaps other economic incentives could be found?

IMHO the "proletariat" is much more suspect to sympathise with the simple messages of fear and comfort of the populist right than the progressive (and thus by nature new and unfamiliar) ideas of the progressive left, and this has been true forever. But in the past, the progressive left was representing tangible economic benefits to the working class (non-slave wages, less inhumane working hours, pension and benefits, etc), that made them the preferred choice DESPITE the progressive political ideas.

But of course with the economic battle of the left largely won decades ago, that incentive just doesn't/didn't exist anymore.

"A riot! The proles are breaking loose at last! When he had reached the spot it was to see a mob of two or three hundred women crowding round the stalls of a street market, with faces as tragic as though they had been the doomed passengers on a sinking ship. But at this moment the general despair broke down into a multitude of individual quarrels. It appeared that one of the stalls had been selling tin saucepans. They were wretched, flimsy things, but cooking-pots of any kind were always difficult to get. Now the supply had unexpectedly given out. The successful women, bumped and jostled by the rest, were trying to make off with their saucepans while dozens of others clamoured round the stall, accusing the stall-keeper of favouritism and of having more saucepans somewhere in reserve. There was a fresh outburst of yells. Two bloated women, one of them with her hair coming down, had got hold of the same saucepan and were trying to tear it out of one another's hands. For a moment they were both tugging, and then the handle came off. Winston watched them disgustedly. And yet, just for a moment, what almost frightening power had sounded in that cry from only a few hundred throats! Why was it that they could never shout like that about anything that mattered?"

[Berkut]

What's the solution? Tell them Trumpesque lies about how lovely everything will be for them if the Dems are in power?

That is certainly a start, but hardly the end.

It is politics. It is the art of convincing people who can be convinced.

I know just writing off those who disagree with you as racist morons is emotionally satisfying. But it is both untrue and not terribly useful.

[Josquius]

What's the solution? Tell them Trumpesque lies about how lovely everything will be for them if the Dems are in power?

That is certainly a start, but hardly the end.

It is politics. It is the art of convincing people who can be convinced.

I know just writing off those who disagree with you as racist morons is emotionally satisfying. But it is both untrue and not terribly useful.

I wish people on the right would stop trying this "You just call everyone you don't like racist/a nazi/whatever".
We're all well aware there are a wide range of views out there.
Finding issue with those of racist morons doesn't mean everyone with a different view is a racist moron.