End of WW2 - 75th anniversary

[Josquius]

You have to remember that you are talking to Tyr.  To him, like the Trumpeters, facts that disagree with actual facts are merely alternative facts.  Trump, like Tyr, appears genuinely unaware that Germany fought against the UK and the US in WW2, no matter what it did later.

Nonsense.
We all know WW2 invovled Germany, the UK and France against the African Alliance

I note people are missing the key part of the point here.
Nobody would doubt that under the nazis Germany did bad things.
However that is in no way due to modern Germans, and even with the Germans of the time the reasons for the nazis are well understood and had circumstances been difficult the same cancer could well have infected any of us.

In modern times we should recognise that it was not Germany or germanness that was the problem that led to ww2. Rather it was nationalism. It could happen to any of us.
Rather than being drawn down into the mud with those who think commemorative events should be celebratory victory matches we should instead unite with the descendents of those who were on the wrong side to remember as mutual victims. Germany afterall suffered more than most.
When the ideology at fault was so built on militaristic nationalism in particular it makes no sense to take that approach to commemoration.
Amongst the brexit generation raised on a diet of mid 20th century war movies we can clearly see that the path of celebration leads back to the same place.

The key point you're missing is that referring to Germany as an Allied nation in WW2, or implying that it was an Allied nation, is so completely incorrect and so massively stupid that it deserves any ridicule that may be heaped upon it.  That is completely independent of any issues involving the causes of the war, or the committing of war crimes, or any other moral judgement.  Germany was, quite simply put, not a member of the Allies in WW2, and that's a fact that is not subject to debate.  Heck, I'm not even aware of any Holocaust deniers who claim that Germany was a member of the Allies.

Nobody says that though. Just a screengrab of a video that has been mistitled.
Plenty of people however do bitch about German involvement in remembrance ceremonies.

[dps]

You have to remember that you are talking to Tyr.  To him, like the Trumpeters, facts that disagree with actual facts are merely alternative facts.  Trump, like Tyr, appears genuinely unaware that Germany fought against the UK and the US in WW2, no matter what it did later.

Nonsense.
We all know WW2 invovled Germany, the UK and France against the African Alliance

I note people are missing the key part of the point here.
Nobody would doubt that under the nazis Germany did bad things.
However that is in no way due to modern Germans, and even with the Germans of the time the reasons for the nazis are well understood and had circumstances been difficult the same cancer could well have infected any of us.

In modern times we should recognise that it was not Germany or germanness that was the problem that led to ww2. Rather it was nationalism. It could happen to any of us.
Rather than being drawn down into the mud with those who think commemorative events should be celebratory victory matches we should instead unite with the descendents of those who were on the wrong side to remember as mutual victims. Germany afterall suffered more than most.
When the ideology at fault was so built on militaristic nationalism in particular it makes no sense to take that approach to commemoration.
Amongst the brexit generation raised on a diet of mid 20th century war movies we can clearly see that the path of celebration leads back to the same place.

The key point you're missing is that referring to Germany as an Allied nation in WW2, or implying that it was an Allied nation, is so completely incorrect and so massively stupid that it deserves any ridicule that may be heaped upon it.  That is completely independent of any issues involving the causes of the war, or the committing of war crimes, or any other moral judgement.  Germany was, quite simply put, not a member of the Allies in WW2, and that's a fact that is not subject to debate.  Heck, I'm not even aware of any Holocaust deniers who claim that Germany was a member of the Allies.

Nobody says that though. Just a screengrab of a video that has been mistitled.

"Which side they were on is irrelevant."  OK, so maybe you don't disagree with historical fact, you just don't think they matter.

[mongers]

Going back to the original picture, Merkel and Germany 'deserve' to be there by dint of being the ones who've learnt the most from WW2, don't stoke nationalism and don't consort with dictators.

Other in that photo, less so.

[Maladict]

Time to resurrect this.

The Liberation of Paris started this day in 1944, coinciding with the end of Operation Bagration in the east.

The Jerries are well and truly fucked

[Razgovory]

For some reason I thought Bagration was in June.

[Syt]

For some reason I thought Bagration was in June.

The operation lasted about 2 months, till the Germans were pushed back to the Vistula.

[11B4V]

Battle of the Falaise Pocket ends 21 August 1944

[Zanza]

Eighty years ago on this day, Germany invaded Poland and started World War II in Europe.

[Admiral Yi]

Any cake left?

[Syt]

[Syt]

New documentary (in German, English closed captions available):

https://youtu.be/8vdXgdn_ilk

"Poland 39 - How German Soldiers Became Murderers"

[Razgovory]

Eighty years ago on this day, Germany invaded Poland and started World War II in Europe.

God, there are barely any people left who fought in it.  My uncle Warn fought in the navy during the war, and he died last year.  He was last surviving member of his graduating class.  I can't help but think that recent surge of Right-wing extremism is at least partially linked to the fact there aren't many people left to remind us what a disaster it was.  We, as in the West, didn't set up the current world system because we all fell in love with each other.  We set it up because the last system resulted in two global catastrophes and a third one could throw the world into a global dark age.   The EU was one of the crowning achievements of the post-war world and yet Britain withdrawing back into splendid isolation.  What a fucking disgrace.

[Maladict]

Out on the heath today, while it is still (somewhat) in bloom.


It also happens to be Drop Zone Y for 1st Airborne headed for Arnhem.


A new monument was about to be installed for the upcoming events.

[Admiral Yi]

Is tromping around Market Garden set up well for visitors?

[Maladict]

There are small markers and monuments all over the place. And about four or five museums, as well as the bridges themselves, of course. You'd have to know where to look for the lesser known places, though. But yeah, for the visitor with an interest in the operation there's a lot to see.