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Ukraine's European Revolution?

Started by Sheilbh, December 03, 2013, 07:39:37 AM

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The Larch

Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2014, 12:36:13 AM
A gas deal has been signed between Russia and the Ukraine, and it's smiles all around

Except for Barroso and the other guy in the background.  :lol:

Btw, election results for the Ukranian parliament are in:


The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Razgovory on June 24, 2014, 03:56:06 PM
I'm not convinced Stalin would have attacked Germany.  He had a strong distrust of the army, and after the poor showing in Finland such a venture wouldn't be a sure thing.  Stalin seemed to prefer to bully weaker powers into submission and subvert stronger powers.

Agreed - Stalin knew well what had happened to the last Russian regime that gambled on war with Germany . . .
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Syt

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33523869

QuoteUkraine clashes raise questions over Right Sector militia

Clashes over the weekend in south-western Ukraine between members of a far-right volunteer militia and local authorities have raised fears that violence is spreading beyond the conflict in Ukraine's east and could further destabilise the country's fragile political balance.

They also underline the delicate and highly risky relationship between the Ukrainian government and the volunteer militias, who are helping fight Moscow-supported militants in eastern Ukraine.

On Saturday, in the city of Mukachevo, around 20 members of the ultra-nationalist Right Sector volunteer battalion exchanged gunfire with police and the security detail of a local politician.

At least three people were killed, reports said, two of whom were from Right Sector, and 13 were wounded.

Currently, officials in the capital, Kiev, have sent reinforcements as well as armoured vehicles to the area, which is next to Ukraine's borders with European Union members Hungary, Slovakia and Romania.

Two Right Sector members have given themselves up, officials say, while authorities are searching for the remaining gunmen.

Right Sector for its part has set up a roadblock outside of Kiev, and are demanding the resignation of Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and other officials.

Despite the stand-off, Kiev at the moment very much needs the volunteer battalions. They are often more motivated than the regular Ukrainian army and have engaged in some of the worst of the fighting.

Most of the battalions have now placed themselves under Kiev's direct control. But a few, like Right Sector, are still wholly or to a large degree independent.

And as the events in Mukachevo indicate, some of these groups follow their own agenda.

Details are extremely murky over what happened in Mukachevo. Right Sector members say they were cracking down on the illicit export of contraband cigarettes into the European Union, which generates millions of dollars and contributes to local corruption.

Others say that Right Sector is itself involved in the illegal cigarette trade, and has become entwined with criminal interests. Still others say the group has been infiltrated by Russian special services and is engaged in carrying out provocations to destabilise the country.

None of the proponents of these scenarios have provided any conclusive evidence, however. What seems clear is that Right Sector possesses an impressive collection of firepower - which they were capable of employing in a corner of Ukraine furthest from the fighting in the east.

Videos and reports from the fighting suggested they had a large number of automatic rifles, grenade launchers and a hand-fed machine gun. Another key question is how much support they enjoy.

After Mukachevo, some volunteer battalions have come out in support of Right Sector. The group is also a political party - albeit on the extreme fringe, after receiving less than two percent of the popular vote in parliamentary elections last year.

Still, even if they do not vote for them, many Ukrainians view them positively, as patriots who are defending the country from Russian aggression.
President Petro Poroshenko promised this week to move against "illegally armed groups".

At times, Right Sector seems as if it came straight out of the Kremlin's playbook to portray Ukraine as awash with ultra-nationalist extremists.

Other times, when they attack LGBT rallies or sport white-power symbols, they seem very sincere indeed in their far-right convictions.

Whatever the group's motives, for many, their weaponry and willingness to use them are sufficient cause for concern.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

mongers

'Life imitating life' as a phrase can now be retired:

Quote
Ukraine election: Comedian Zelensky wins presidency by landslide
22 April 2019 

Ukrainian comedian Volodymyr Zelensky has scored a landslide victory in the country's presidential election.

With nearly all ballots counted in the run-off vote, Mr Zelensky had taken more than 73% with incumbent Petro Poroshenko trailing far behind on 24%.

"I will never let you down," Mr Zelensky told celebrating supporters.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48007487
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

derspiess

Apparently this Zelensky guy is a Jew.  That's kinda significant, particularly for a place like Ukraine.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

mongers

Quote from: derspiess on April 22, 2019, 08:11:21 AM
Apparently this Zelensky guy is a Jew.  That's kinda significant, particularly for a place like Ukraine.

Didn't know that, both interesting and encouraging.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

DGuller

It's encouraging that Ukrainians can elect an almost openly Jewish candidate by a landslide, though I think we'll need to give it at least 50 years to see if that sticks.  It's discouraging that the virus of anti-politics has spread to a country fighting an undeclared war against a superpower.  It's true that Ukrainians have been badly abused by their government since the independence, but this still defies logic.

Legbiter

Quote from: mongers on April 22, 2019, 07:32:45 AM
'Life imitating life' as a phrase can now be retired:

Quote
Ukraine election: Comedian Zelensky wins presidency by landslide
22 April 2019 

Ukrainian comedian Volodymyr Zelensky has scored a landslide victory in the country's presidential election.

With nearly all ballots counted in the run-off vote, Mr Zelensky had taken more than 73% with incumbent Petro Poroshenko trailing far behind on 24%.

"I will never let you down," Mr Zelensky told celebrating supporters.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48007487

Reminds of what happened here shortly after the 2008 crash when a comedian got elected mayor of Reykjavík. He wasn't even that bad of a politician. Had credibility to act as the cleanup crew. Then departed like Cinncinatus of yore after his term.
Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

Legbiter

Quote from: DGullerIt's true that Ukrainians have been badly abused by their government since the independence, but this still defies logic.

Indeed. Defies logic.
Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

Tamas


The Brain

How powerful is the president in Ukraine? Yes I'm too lazy to google it, instead I use "conversation" which young people don't know what the fuck it is anymore.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Eddie Teach

Quote from: mongers on April 22, 2019, 07:32:45 AM
'Life imitating life' as a phrase can now be retired:

But you just made it up?
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Barrister

So obviously in a country that took a near-revolution for the last President to leave office, it's nice that there appears to be a peaceful transition after a largely clean election campaign.  It's also nice that for the first time ever the election wasn't fought between a pro-Russian and a pro-Western candidate - Ukraine clearly wants to align itself with the West (the loss of part of the East may be part of the reason for that).

But yes - electing an actor with no experience, no real platform, and with close ties to one of Ukraine's oligarchs (Igor Kolomoisky), whose TV channel Zelensky's show is on, sounds rather ominous.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

Yeah by empowering pro-Russian separatists, Putin lost influence in the country in general. But I guess he felt he was going to lose anyway so time to seize some strategic territory.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."