The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

[crazy canuck]

In my mind the story would have been improved by having the elves and dwarves be good friends at the start and then have that destroyed as the evil influence grows. We'll se where they are going I guess.

Agree.  In the Tolkien version, Durin and Celebrimbor were fast friends, and the Western Door to Moria was only built because the dwarves of Moria wanted easier access to trade with Eregion.  The show's depiction of the start of their relationship is silly and completely unnecessary.  That's a lot of screen time that could have been better-used later in the story.

I agree. Durin is insecure and immature in this version of the story.  No need for the time devoted to that silliness.  It was also odd that Celebrimbor was surprised to hear that the Dwarves and Elves had been friends. 

I am beginning to doubt the statement that Tolkien scholars reviewed the material.

[Oexmelin]

Having been brought in to look over material for TV, I can safely say that whatever experts or scholars say is usually easily dismissed whenever it conflicts with whatever is deemed "good storytelling"... Someone probably thought that Elrond and Durin falling out over not attending a wedding was the linchpin of major character growth and fine entertainment.

[The Minsky Moment]

The original source material has very little to say about the Dwarves and Elves in this period, and nothing at all to say about Durin IV (probably why he was chosen as the main). It's clear that there were good relations but the exact when and how that came about isn't specified.

[crazy canuck]

Having been brought in to look over material for TV, I can safely say that whatever experts or scholars say is usually easily dismissed whenever it conflicts with whatever is deemed "good storytelling"... Someone probably thought that Elrond and Durin falling out over not attending a wedding was the linchpin of major character growth and fine entertainment.

Well that explains it then 

[Threviel]

Celebrimbor lived in eastern Beleriand and the sons of Feanor had good relations with the dwarven kingdoms. He would have been extremely well acquainted with them.

But I guess that for storytelling reasons they need to show growth (since presumably the bean counters have been told that it's necessary and therefore require it) in the characters and since Celebrimbor will get royally fucked up by Sauron they need to show him as weak and foolish since otherwise they would have to show Sauron as clever and intelligent and fooling everyone and that is difficult and demands something of the viewer and that is verboten in modern tv.

It's annoying that they don't strive to be better than formulaic storytelling of today.

What's our opinion on spoilers with regards to the books by the way?

[Oexmelin]

I see that the series has already inspired Threviel to do free verse.

[Habbaku]

  He's using white text as a spoiler.

[grumbler]

The original source material has very little to say about the Dwarves and Elves in this period, and nothing at all to say about Durin IV (probably why he was chosen as the main). It's clear that there were good relations but the exact when and how that came about isn't specified.

True, but if the dwarves have built the Western Door (with elvish assistance), the show must be after what would be, in Tolkien's legendarium, the start of the friendship between the elves of Eregion and the dwarves of Moria.

[Threviel]

He's using white text as a spoiler.

Hey, it works on my phone!

[crazy canuck]

The original source material has very little to say about the Dwarves and Elves in this period, and nothing at all to say about Durin IV (probably why he was chosen as the main). It's clear that there were good relations but the exact when and how that came about isn't specified.

The show creates the scenario that there were good relations in the past - so much so that the main point of contention now is that an Elf had the bad manners not show up for Durin's wedding.  Silliness.

[grumbler]

The show creates the scenario that there were good relations in the past - so much so that the main point of contention now is that an Elf had the bad manners not show up for Durin's wedding.  Silliness.

Yes, it is a major blot on the writers' copybook that they chose that as the bone of contention.

[celedhring]

The original source material has very little to say about the Dwarves and Elves in this period, and nothing at all to say about Durin IV (probably why he was chosen as the main). It's clear that there were good relations but the exact when and how that came about isn't specified.

The show creates the scenario that there were good relations in the past - so much so that the main point of contention now is that an Elf had the bad manners not show up for Durin's wedding.  Silliness.

I wouldn't say so, it creates the scenario where Elrond had good relations in the past at a personal level (which he has squandered), rather than societal level.

The conflict between Durin and Elrond is really dumb, but the actor playing the dwarf is so engaging that I managed to  enjoy the scenes.

[celedhring]

The show creates the scenario that there were good relations in the past - so much so that the main point of contention now is that an Elf had the bad manners not show up for Durin's wedding.  Silliness.

Yes, it is a major blot on the writers' copybook that they chose that as the bone of contention.

I feel that the show above all suffers - like the Hobbit movies interestingly - from "conflict sickness", the writers' perceived need to create a conflict at all times to make things "interesting" and "complex", no matter how manufactured it feels. Hence stuff like Durin and Elrond being at odds, or many of the Galadriel scenes.

[grumbler]

It's hard in television to show the interesting conflicts, those within the characters, so the writers on many shows (like this one) focus on the low-hanging fruit of conflict between characters.

Imagine how much better the last few episodes of GoT would have been if it was Grey Worm who struggled with the idea of Dani's ambition, and he was the one to assassinate her.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I suppose it illustrates how relationships with elves can be problematic. The elf goes to a few poetry readings and dances, meanwhile the human ages and, on his deathbed, wondered what happened to his elvish friend.