Biggest attack in Kashmir in decades

[Eddie Teach]

Pretty cool LZ song.

[mongers]

So out of curiosity is there anything of value in Kashmir? Besides the sentimental value of proving you have the bigger dick, obviously.

It's nice and all but kinda drags on.

[jimmy olsen]

This looks really bad

[mongers]

Pakistan are claiming they carried out demonstration air strikes on Indian territory in Kashmir, just before this or these aircraft were shot down.

They said there were six targets, but that they choose to hit 'open ground' * instead, so not unlike the earlier Indian retaliation that killed '300 terrorits' or a few trees.

Hard to know what's true given the barefaced lies/propaganda both sides are conducting.


* I'd guess this was an attempt at a carefully calibrated response to the earlier Indian token strikes on the forest target. Of course that's all gone out of the window, now that planes have been shot down, possibly by both sides.

[Tamas]

Didn't India use Mig-21s for this? I mean, that surely was meant as a clear message of "stand clear we don't actually mean this".

[derspiess]

Probably piloted by some dudes they weren't really happy with.

[citizen k]

Probably piloted by some dudes they weren't really happy with.

Performance reviews matter.

[Admiral Yi]

And office politics.

[mongers]

If both sides had each shot down one aircraft I can see that as a draw and de-escalation could happen.

But I think the videos from the conflict zone shows something different, there's the captured Indian pilot and stills of his Mig21 crash site in Pakistan, the video footage from Indian of the plane downed looks like another Mig21 with apparently a dead pilot's body. So I'm guessing it's the 2nd plane the Pakistanis claimed to have shot down.

If so that means India are so to speak 0-2, and I suggest they'll want to avenge his 'humiliation' with more air strikes or maybe a further qualitative or quantitative escalation? 

Apparently there's a lot of ongoing small arms fire across the Line of Control, but hard to gauge it's significance, anyone heard reports of cross border shelling?

edit:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir/india-pakistan-claim-to-down-each-others-jets-as-kashmir-conflict-heats-up-idUSKCN1QG0IR?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29

This Reuters item provides some clarity to what has happened regarding the aircraft, apparently the widely circulated video of the Indian crash site is that of a crashed Mil-17 helicopter, which explains the large wheel struts pictured. Not know if this was an accident or somehow related to the fighting.

But more worryingly it confirms both sides are using artillery fire across the LOC, and exchanges of small arms fire is happening in multiple locations.

[Razgovory]

This is interesting because it's the first real major international crisis since Trump became President.  Typically it's the US who mediates and keeps this bullshit from getting out of hand.  There is a real question if Trump wants head off military conflict or even can.  The State Department has suffer quite a bit in the last two years and has been purposefully been neglected for some reason.  The only other powers that could mediate the conflict are Russia and China.  China also claims parts of Kashmir so they aren't exactly a disinterested party.  Putin would love to be seen as the peacemaker in South Asia. 

Still, a cease fire would be good even if it give Putin enormous prestige and political capital.

[derspiess]

We have top men working on it right now.

[mongers]

Modi will want to keep the crisis atmosphere running for several more weeks, so he can rack up a big election win on the back of inflamed nationalism.

[celedhring]

Well, according to media in India one of those MiG-21 downed a F-16...

[jimmy olsen]

India's media has been war crazy.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/01/indias-media-is-war-crazy/

[jimmy olsen]

Not good. I feel like Modi is going to feel politically forced to do something. If he deescalated as is sensible, he'd be politically crushed since giving in at this point will be painted as a loss.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1101713237597409281

Officials say two siblings and their mother have been killed in cross-border shelling between Indian and Pakistani soldiers in disputed Kashmir.