Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Looks like Elon has been named along with JK Rowling in a suit filed by Imane Khelif the boxer who they repeatedly called a man. It couldn't have happened to two more deserving people. I wish Imane all the best and the largest award possible.   

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/jk-rowling-elon-musk-imane-khelif-lawsuit-1236105185/

Melon Tusk is getting himself involved in so many legal cases he's going to end up hiring half the lawyers in the US just to manage them all.

[chipwich]

Bold assumptions that tests controlled by Russians are always faulty and the Russians have it out for one Algerian boxer in particular.

It is a sad day if being factually accurate is considered being bold.  Also this was not the only boxer who fell victim to the Russian "testing".

I don"t think it's unreasonable for people to demonstrate the falseness of a test they insist is false.

[Jacob]

How can anyone prove that if all we have is unspecified vagueness from Russia?

The already discredited Russian organization needs to show that their alleged test should be taken seriously. There's no there there.

[chipwich]

How can anyone prove that if all we have is unspecified vagueness from Russia?

The already discredited Russian organization needs to show that their alleged test should be taken seriously. There's no there there.

She can release her own test showing she's xx.

[Tamas]

How can anyone prove that if all we have is unspecified vagueness from Russia?

The already discredited Russian organization needs to show that their alleged test should be taken seriously. There's no there there.

She can release her own test showing she's xx.

Why would she do that? Her birth certificate, herself, and the relevant boxing association classifies her as female.

Plus, are you seriously telling me, that if she release a presser/tweet/whatever saying look I have had a test made I am a woman, you'd concede you have been wrong and that manly looking lady is in fact a lady and was right to fight other females in the Olympics?

[crazy canuck]

She has been competing for years, including at the Tokyo Olympics.  The first time anyone questioned her gender is the discredited Russian boxing organization.

Why should she have to prove anything to the idiots who believe the Russian propaganda?

This keeps coming up.  The Russians and their useful idiots make claims, the gullible believe it and then say the onus is on people to prove that the Russian propaganda isn't true.

[Tamas]

She has been competing for years, including at the Tokyo Olympics.  The first time anyone questioned her gender is the discredited Russian boxing organization.

Why should she have to prove anything to the idiots who believe the Russian propaganda?

Kind of unrelated, and likely just a non-native language thing, but in such instances shouldn't we be talking about sex not gender? Because it's her sex that got questioned. And, if she decided to start identifying as a man, without taking any testosterone etc. shouldn't she/he be still allowed to compete among women (females) based on the hormone etc. requirements of women's boxing?

[chipwich]

A genetic test demonstrating that she has xx chromosomes is not some unfair burden in a sport where a qualifying factor is being a woman.

The Russians were apparently the governing institution the Olympics relied on, they aren't some randos.

[Sheilbh]

Kind of unrelated, and likely just a non-native language thing, but in such instances shouldn't we be talking about sex not gender? Because it's her sex that got questioned. And, if she decided to start identifying as a man, without taking any testosterone etc. shouldn't she/he be still allowed to compete among women (females) based on the hormone etc. requirements of women's boxing?

I can't speak for US and North America (I get the sense "gender" is used more generically there).

But in the UK, especially legally it is a clear split. There are two separate terms that are used. So we have anti-sex discrimination laws (the Sex Discrimination Act 1975), sex-based rights (e.g. that you can discriminate on the basis of sex when it is a reasonable means of meeting a legitimate aim) - and a process of gender recognition relating to someone's gender identity.

One of the questions that is working through the courts right now is that if someone goes through the gender recognition process whether that changes their sex from a legal perspective. I think that's reached the Supreme Court. FWIW my reading of the legislation is that if someone does get through the gender recognition process then they have changed sex from a legal perspective - I'm not sure if that's what legislators intended, but I think it's what they wrote down (and is why moving to self-ID and from a 2 year period of living in your gender to three months has been so controversial).

[Sophie Scholl]

The Russians were apparently the governing institution the Olympics relied on, they aren't some randos.

They very expressly were *not*, in fact, relied on for this Olympics or any since 2016.

"The entire boxing world has already learned to expect almost anything from the Russian-dominated governing body that was given the unprecedented punishment of being permanently banned from the Olympics last year. In fact, it hasn't run an Olympic boxing tournament since the Rio de Janeiro Games in 2016."

https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-khelif-russia-boxing-b53b1edda21139d14a572bd35ca440e6?fbclid=IwY2xjawEptRJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHRfrQrPmWL-gC4_C_3TovozgYIkNm7jGHbXYRv-Z3y2RdZW8ZmW6UqlSlg_aem_I2TQCQMBuvWKCkHGgbRBFA

[chipwich]

So 2 whole Olympics ago.

[Josquius]

She can release her own test showing she's xx.

Read the bbc article I posted.
It doesn't matter if she's xy.

She has been competing for years, including at the Tokyo Olympics.  The first time anyone questioned her gender is the discredited Russian boxing organization.

Why should she have to prove anything to the idiots who believe the Russian propaganda?

Kind of unrelated, and likely just a non-native language thing, but in such instances shouldn't we be talking about sex not gender? Because it's her sex that got questioned. And, if she decided to start identifying as a man, without taking any testosterone etc. shouldn't she/he be still allowed to compete among women (females) based on the hormone etc. requirements of women's boxing?

Traditionally they were exactly the same thing. The word gender was invented as people didn't want to say sex. Which honestly I can relate to. Feels naughty to be writing it. Wouldn't do do at work.

These days there is officially seen to be a big strict split but imo this leans a bit too much into placating the transphobes and their desires to have gender apartheid with trans women so I tend to stick to the traditional use.

I do believe things will end up back there in decades to come anyway as the science and attitudes develop such that sex as a spectrum becomes more widely recognised amongst lay people and trans people can transition far more fully and flexibility.

But yeah. Huge tangent.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

So 2 whole Olympics ago.

The Russians didn't capture the organization until after the IOC suspension, and the IOC decertification last year was partly due to the continuing corruption and governance problems that the Russians only exacerbated.  The bullshit test that underpins this whole kerfuffle is part-and-parcel of the corruption issues that got the IBA decertified.  They were trying to protect the perfect record of a prominent Russian boxer.

[chipwich]

You don't actually know if the test is bullshit. If every Russian test is wrong Russia would not have an effective space program.

[Jacob]

She can release her own test showing she's xx.

You don't actually know if the test is bullshit. If every Russian test is wrong Russia would not have an effective space program.

The Russians would need to demonstrate that the test is credible. We don't treat Russian say-so as credible these days, for very good reasons. They've demonstrated a consistent propensity for lying.