Israel-Hamas War 2023

[The Brain]

We clearly aren't talking about the Muslim world here though. We are talking about in the west.

If we exclude the Middle East from a discussion about Israel then things get kinda weird.

[Razgovory]

The Palestinians do have a right to self government, and maybe they'll get it when they stop fighting.  We weren't going to bring up the German right to self-determination in 1945."

Yeah sure. The Palestinians are the problem. They just need to stop resisting whilst their lands get seized then they'll definitely get their country back.
And you can absolutely guarantee getting every single one of millions of people to behave is possible.

Out and out traditional Nazis?  No, way more people oppose the Jews a right to a country than that. More people oppose Jews breathing than that.

I notice you keep dodging the awkward question here.
Why do zionists do expecially have a right to a country that they can seize bits of another people's wouldbe country at will?

For people who oppose the Jews the right to a country I would write down "The Muslim world".  They make up the majority of the anti-Zionist population.  Some do recognize that Israel is stronger than they are and can't be immediately destroyed, but few recognize that Jews have a right to self determination like any other country.  I could add a multitude of others such as those who believe in anti-colonialism and a large number of Communists, but most of the people who are so interested in Israel that they identify themselves as "anti-zionist" aren't primarily interested in criticizing the Israeli judicial system.  They want the whole thing gone.

We clearly aren't talking about the Muslim world here though. We are talking about in the west.

And no. I recognise you watch incredibly one sided sources on this topic but there's a lot more nuance to criticism of zionism than that.

The Palestinians are the problem.  They were the ones to refuse in 1948.  They were the ones to refuse in 2000.  They were the ones to refuse in 2006.

Why do the Israelis have the right to cease other bits of other people's countries at will?  They don't.  They shouldn't do that.  They wouldn't be able to do that if the Palestinians had accepted the treaty in 2000, but they chose more bloodshed instead.

We are talking about Anti-zionists so we are obviously talking about Muslims.  They are the main constituency here, not you.  You are the fringe.  In the West we have Muslims, left-wing extremists, radical students and a few pearl-clutching affluent labor party members.

[Admiral Yi]

The issue isn't whether these people are cunts. They obviously are.
Its those pointing to them and going "See! See! Anyone who dares to speak against Israel is like this! Anti zionism is anti semitism!"

It's not either or.

And from my viewing of he media there are significant portions of the population that do not think the protestors yelling genocide slogans are cunts.  So it's not obvious to them.

[grumbler]

The Palestinians are the problem.  They were the ones to refuse in 1948.  They were the ones to refuse in 2000.  They were the ones to refuse in 2006.

Why do the Israelis have the right to cease other bits of other people's countries at will?  They don't.  They shouldn't do that.  They wouldn't be able to do that if the Palestinians had accepted the treaty in 2000, but they chose more bloodshed instead.

We are talking about Anti-zionists so we are obviously talking about Muslims.  They are the main constituency here, not you.  You are the fringe.  In the West we have Muslims, left-wing extremists, radical students and a few pearl-clutching affluent labor party members.

The Palestinians didn't "refuse" anything in 1948.  They were the victims of the Arab attack on Israel (and the Israeli counter-attack) as much as anyone.  Israel refused to accept the 1947 borders, the 1967 borders, and the proposed 2000 borders, nor did it even consider entertaining its obligations under international law to allow the return of Palestinian refugees.  The PLO/PA has certainly been more intransigent on average than the Israeli government on average, but Israeli intransigence was critical to several failed peace initiatives.

No argument can be made that everything would be all lovey-dovey if it weren't for the stupid Palestinians.  Israelis themselves are certainly no more united on what a peace should look like than the Palestinians are.

[Razgovory]

I don't even know what you are talking about now.