The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[Barrister]

None of that makes any sense.

You are delusional if you think a No in yet another referendum would give fanatics pause. It took them just 3 years, not exactly a generation, to repeat the last failed attempt.
There has been absolutely no impediment for separatist propaganda since Franco died. Separatists directly control police, media and education. Nothing stopping their message of hate. Which is kind of why we find ourselves here in the first place.
As for "Madrid", the central government cannot sanction unconstitutional acts. You'd think a lawyer would understand the concept...

Their "last failed attempt" was also declared illegal, and also boycotted by unionists.  There's never been a referendum sanctioned by Spain and in which both sides participated.

I'd be surprised if the Spanish constitution banned referendums.  I'm advocating for the Canadian model here - a referendum doesn't immediately lead to independence, rather it leads to negotiations.  The Spanish government doesn't agree to independence without conditions - but if there is a "yes" vote, commits to holding good faith negotiations which would amend the constitution to allow Catalan independence.

[Duque de Bragança]

So.... is this a good time to look for a house in Barcelona.... or a bad time?

Houses will be cheaper when or if independence becomes a reality. 

[chipwich]

If they vote "Yes" - well why shouldn't they be allowed to be independent?

You can't have sovereignty, or rule of law, or human right if a subfaction can decide to nullify law and form a new sovereign entity.

Why?  There's been lots of examples of countries getting their independence.

At the expense of the incumbent county's sovereignty and the rights of it's citizens.

[chipwich]

I'd be surprised if the Spanish constitution banned referendums.  I'm advocating for the Canadian model here - a referendum doesn't immediately lead to independence, rather it leads to

Civilized countries don't negotiate their citizens rights to a secessionist enemy.

[Grey Fox]

We are not the enemy.

[Iormlund]

None of that makes any sense.

You are delusional if you think a No in yet another referendum would give fanatics pause. It took them just 3 years, not exactly a generation, to repeat the last failed attempt.
There has been absolutely no impediment for separatist propaganda since Franco died. Separatists directly control police, media and education. Nothing stopping their message of hate. Which is kind of why we find ourselves here in the first place.
As for "Madrid", the central government cannot sanction unconstitutional acts. You'd think a lawyer would understand the concept...

Their "last failed attempt" was also declared illegal, and also boycotted by unionists. 

I know you are the posterboy of lawful-neutral, but sweet Jesus. When emotions are involved nobody gives a fuck about official sanction. Only "winning" matters. Take a look at the world around you.

I'd be surprised if the Spanish constitution banned referendums.  I'm advocating for the Canadian model here - a referendum doesn't immediately lead to independence, rather it leads to negotiations.  The Spanish government doesn't agree to independence without conditions - but if there is a "yes" vote, commits to holding good faith negotiations which would amend the constitution to allow Catalan independence.

Art. II makes the State indivisible.

Reforming core articles such as that one is beyond the power of any government (for good reason). First of all you need 2/3rds majority in Parliament. The current government would be lucky to get past 1/3rd.
Secondly, invoking the powers to reform said articles implies immediate dissolution of Parliament. The next Parliament will also have to pass the reform, again by 2/3rds majority.
And finally it will have to be approved by referendum in the whole of Spain.

So yeah, "Madrid" (whoever you think that is) cannot do anything like you propose. It's out of the question.

[celedhring]

Enacting laws that compel a constitutonal reform has also been deemed unconstitutional in the past. If a law needs a Constitutonal reform in order to be fully carried out, you have to do that first. So the Clarity Act wouldn't be possible.

The only possible referendum would be a non-binding one, which seems kind of a bad idea.

[Barrister]

The only possible referendum would be a non-binding one, which seems kind of a bad idea.

Yeah - the whole point of the matter is that it is binding, so people have to think long and hard about it.  Non-binding opens the door to people voting "Yes" just to "send a message".

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think a lot of you frankly, filthy secessionists are monstrous and ignore basic tenets of democracy.

Any democratic country has as its founding principle at this point in history, preservation of liberty. To allow sub-national, arbitrarily defined, geographic polities to have simple majority-vote "secessions", in which every citizen of the vote who voted to stay is forced out of their country and government of birth, is insane. Especially since once the secessionists are no longer part of the parent country, the parent country can make no guarantees as to the rights and democratic freedoms of its former citizens.

I strongly believe secession is not compatible with modern, Western democratic ideals.

[Maladict]

I think a lot of you frankly, filthy secessionists are monstrous and ignore basic tenets of democracy.

Any democratic country has as its founding principle at this point in history, preservation of liberty. To allow sub-national, arbitrarily defined, geographic polities to have simple majority-vote "secessions", in which every citizen of the vote who voted to stay is forced out of their country and government of birth, is insane. Especially since once the secessionists are no longer part of the parent country, the parent country can make no guarantees as to the rights and democratic freedoms of its former citizens.

I strongly believe secession is not compatible with modern, Western democratic ideals.

What about non simple majority-vote secession? What if there is overwhelming support of, say, 90 percent of the population?

[viper37]

I strongly believe secession is not compatible with modern, Western democratic ideals.

I believe the same thing about forcing people to remain in a country where they feel disrespected by the central authority.

But it's ok, you believe South Sudan belong with North Sudan, no matter how many dead people there are, so, everything's fine, just like in Sebrenica

[Valmy]

I believe the same thing about forcing people to remain in a country where they feel disrespected by the central authority.

But it's ok, you believe South Sudan belong with North Sudan, no matter how many dead people there are, so, everything's fine, just like in Sebrenica

South Sudan is just a little bit different than "not feeling respected"

[The Brain]

I strongly believe secession is not compatible with modern, Western democratic ideals.

I believe the same thing about forcing people to remain in a country where they feel disrespected by the central authority.

But it's ok, you believe South Sudan belong with North Sudan, no matter how many dead people there are, so, everything's fine, just like in Sebrenica

You think North Sudan is a modern, Western democracy?

[OttoVonBismarck]

I strongly believe secession is not compatible with modern, Western democratic ideals.

I believe the same thing about forcing people to remain in a country where they feel disrespected by the central authority.

But it's ok, you believe South Sudan belong with North Sudan, no matter how many dead people there are, so, everything's fine, just like in Sebrenica

You're basically Donald Trump and the people who support him. "We refuse to associate with anyone we disagree with." This is the mentality that is destroying the West.

[Razgovory]

What can you do?  Nationalism in disease whether it shows up in the US or Spain or Quebec.