The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[celedhring]

Rajoy about to appear in Congress. Pulse racing...

EDIT: Seems he'll appear this afternoon, only ministers/VP talking for now.

EDIT2: No, at noon.

[celedhring]

Like a true Galician (sorry Larchie) Rajoy has bounced it back. He formally requests the Catalan Government to clarify whether they declared independence or not yesterday, before undertaking further steps (hinting that those steps would be the intervention of Catalan autonomy)

This should at least give me until the weekend without panic attacks.

[celedhring]

Opposition leader announces he's reached an agreement with Rajoy to start Constitutional reform, including regional organization. The Commission had already been greenlit a few weeks ago, and it will start to deliberate next week.

[celedhring]

So this is how it's being reported:

1) The Government, through the Spanish Senate, is formally asking the Catalan Government whether it's declared independence or not, and has until Monday to produce an answer.
2) If the answer is "yes" there's a second deadline until Thursday 19 to retract it.
3) Failing that, the process to intervene the Catalan autonomy (art. 155 of the Spanish Constitution) will start.

[Grey Fox]

Man, you guys suck at quelling regional tension.

[celedhring]

They have also opened the Commission on Constitutional Reform and invited the separatists to participate. 2 out of 3 separatist parties have already refused.

I don't know what else Madrid could do at this point. A democratic state can't break its own Constitution.

[Grey Fox]

Give more autonomy. Of course the separatist don't want to participate. Doesn't matter. You don't talk to the Parties, you talk to the population.

[Drakken]

Give more autonomy. Of course the separatist don't want to participate. Doesn't matter. You don't talk to the Parties, you talk to the population.

They cannot give any more autonomy. The only thing that'd remain to be delegated to Catalonia is control over taxation.

[celedhring]

Give more autonomy. Of course the separatist don't want to participate. Doesn't matter. You don't talk to the Parties, you talk to the population.

That would be complicated. A new Constitution can be approved without them, a new Catalan Statute not.

[celedhring]

Give more autonomy. Of course the separatist don't want to participate. Doesn't matter. You don't talk to the Parties, you talk to the population.

They cannot give any more autonomy. The only thing that'd remain to be delegated to Catalonia is control over taxation.

Yeah, Spain is extremely decentralized. But it can be perfected.

Taxation ultimately is the big thing remaining, and even if the state doesn't want to give all of it up, the current system is extremely imperfect, complicated, and - worst of all - opaque. The biggest structural problem affecting regions right now (ALL of them, not just Catalonia), is that they control most of the expenditure (health care, education, etc...) but have very little control on the financing. If a region finds itself lacking funds after receiving transfers from the State, they have few levers they can pull to increase their own revenue besides some small devolved taxes and rising/lowering a few points on the income tax. All they can do is to cut expense or run big deficits. Some kind of co-participation in tax policy and collection is necessary, as well as increased ability to create new taxes. Even the liberals (notorious anti-nationalists) have put forward a reform to increase regional tax autonomy to a degree. An independent commission established by Madrid also produced a similar proposal.

[Grey Fox]

Give more autonomy. Of course the separatist don't want to participate. Doesn't matter. You don't talk to the Parties, you talk to the population.

They cannot give any more autonomy. The only thing that'd remain to be delegated to Catalonia is control over taxation.

Good place to start.

[Iormlund]

They cannot give any more autonomy. The only thing that'd remain to be delegated to Catalonia is control over taxation.

Good place to start.

Ten years ago I would maybe agree. Not anymore. It would make another go at this even more risky.

I'm all for dialogue but there are two things that have to happen:

• Everyone involved in setting this up ends in jail. Dialogue can start with whoever is in charge afterwards.
• The central government must keep control and oversight of any power that can turn against it.

[Valmy]

Give more autonomy. Of course the separatist don't want to participate. Doesn't matter. You don't talk to the Parties, you talk to the population.

They cannot give any more autonomy. The only thing that'd remain to be delegated to Catalonia is control over taxation.

Good place to start.

Sounds like that would be the end not the start

[Grey Fox]

They cannot give any more autonomy. The only thing that'd remain to be delegated to Catalonia is control over taxation.

Good place to start.

Ten years ago I would maybe agree. Not anymore. It would make another go at this even more risky.

I'm all for dialogue but there are two things that have to happen:

• Everyone involved in setting this up ends in jail. Dialogue can start with whoever is in charge afterwards.
• The central government must keep control and oversight of any power that can turn against it.

Man, you guys suck at quelling regional tension.

[Iormlund]

Man, you guys suck at quelling regional tension.

This might be new to you. But we've been playing this game for 40 long years: