The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

Started by celedhring, September 06, 2017, 02:44:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Jacob

Doesn't sound like celedhring is a die hard Catalonian nationalist....

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: celedhring on September 06, 2017, 03:43:53 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 06, 2017, 03:36:42 PM
So what?

Catalonian politicians can declare independence. That doesn't make it so.

Businesses aren't suddenly going to line up to send them money (VAT, SS contributions and income tax from workers, business tax, excise taxes). Not in a week, not in a year.

When you have 40-50% of the population voting for parties willing to run roughshod through constitutional and democratic principles in order to achieve MUH FREEDOM, you can bet that unilateral independence is going to have an effect. Sure, long term or even mid term, unilateral independence is not viable, but you can bet that lots of damage can be done in the interim. And I don't mean just metaphorical damage.

Maybe Spain shouldn't have behaved like it did, running roughshod over made agreements and behaving in a fashion that is better suited for Russia rather than a western state?

Iormlund


Valmy

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 07, 2017, 12:30:03 PM
Maybe Spain shouldn't have behaved like it did, running roughshod over made agreements and behaving in a fashion that is better suited for Russia rather than a western state?

Maybe you should be more specific so he can address what exactly it is you are referring to?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

HVC

Quote from: Valmy on September 07, 2017, 12:51:45 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 07, 2017, 12:30:03 PM
Maybe Spain shouldn't have behaved like it did, running roughshod over made agreements and behaving in a fashion that is better suited for Russia rather than a western state?

Maybe you should be more specific so he can address what exactly it is you are referring to?

Isabella was a bitch maybe?
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Valmy

Quote from: HVC on September 07, 2017, 01:00:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 07, 2017, 12:51:45 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 07, 2017, 12:30:03 PM
Maybe Spain shouldn't have behaved like it did, running roughshod over made agreements and behaving in a fashion that is better suited for Russia rather than a western state?

Maybe you should be more specific so he can address what exactly it is you are referring to?

Isabella was a bitch maybe?

I thought maybe he was talking about Francisco Franco but it was not like Spain was a democracy when he was in charge so that would be silly.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Tonitrus


The Brain

Quote from: Tonitrus on September 07, 2017, 01:42:52 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 07, 2017, 01:32:23 PM
Probably a Treaty of Tortillas thing.

Isn't that on Taco Bell's secret menu?

I don't know, they never tell me anything.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Jacob

I too am pretty interested in hearing the pro-separatist point of view. I vaguely remember bits about federal Spanish shittiness as well, but no details.

In this particular case I don't have even mild opinions in either direction.

The Minsky Moment

For one thing, it's not clear to me how much Catalonian nationalism is Scottish-style cultural nationalism or Lega Nordish resentment of subsidizing southerners.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Iormlund


The Larch

And in some extreme cases it converges into the "we're floating balls of light being prevented from being basically Scandinavian by the knuckle dragging thugs in Madrid" delightful combo.

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

celedhring

Most large Catalan cities - and critically, Barcelona - have denied the Catalan government the use of polling stations for the referendum. Support for separatism is lower in cities (except in the north), and larger in rural areas, so that was expected. The thing is already stillborn before a single police officer makes a single arrest.

At the end of the day, the separatists haven't even bothered to try to convince the rest of the Catalans before going to battle against Spain. If they mustered, say, 66%+ sustained support, the union would be untenable in the long term, no matter the illegality of independence under the current Spanish constitutional order. But nope, it's all subterfuge and jumping over a cliff for... what? Fueling more victim complex for another generation?