About those peaceful antifa protests...

[garbon]

Back Alley is free.

[crazy canuck]

Well, Derspice likes gated communities, we can accommodate that here.

[Ancient Demon]

Look at Ancient Demon and all the other magical creatures that have popped out of the woodwork to spout off alt-right rhetoric here.  That is concerning.  If memory serves they weren't always alt-right level hooligans, but the silence on the right as espoused by people like you who are more balanced and moderated gives them courage and power to shape the direction of where the Conservative elements of society are going.

I'm not alt-right.

[Ancient Demon]

I've only seen a handful of recent posts from AD and I don't really remember much about the content, other than they ruffled some feathers.  Not to de-rail the conversation, but do we really have that many alt-righters here?

No, he's full of shit.

[jimmy olsen]

Anyone here still like Antifa?  I mean, they're Anti-Fascists, after all.  How can you oppose a group that goes after Fascists?

Anyone here think that one incident makes confronting fascists a bad idea?

So you're saying you still like Antifa?

I am saying that this incident draws attention to the fact that there are violent factions within every protest group but that fact does not undermine the need, especially now, to confront fascism.

Agreed.

[dps]

Anyone here still like Antifa?  I mean, they're Anti-Fascists, after all.  How can you oppose a group that goes after Fascists?

Anyone here think that one incident makes confronting fascists a bad idea?

To the extent that anyone in antifa advocates political violence, yes.  My understanding, which may be flawed, is that at the very least, many members of antifa do in fact advocate political violence.  Certainly some posters here have made posts in favor of antifa in which they advocated or at least defended political violence.

[PDH]

To the extent that anyone in the alt-right advocates political violence, yes.  My understanding, which may be flawed, is that at the very least, many members of alt-right do in fact advocate political violence.  Certainly some posters here have made posts in favor of the alt-right in which they advocated or at least defended political violence.

[dps]

To the extent that anyone in the alt-right advocates political violence, yes.  My understanding, which may be flawed, is that at the very least, many members of alt-right do in fact advocate political violence.  Certainly some posters here have made posts in favor of the alt-right in which they advocated or at least defended political violence.

I don't disagree.  I'm opposed to political violence, no matter who is using it.

And to be clear, I don't mind counter-protesters showing up and being prepared to defend themselves if they are attacked.  I do mind them inittiating violence against others.

[Eddie Teach]

To the extent that anyone in the alt-right advocates political violence, yes.  My understanding, which may be flawed, is that at the very least, many members of alt-right do in fact advocate political violence.  Certainly some posters here have made posts in favor of the alt-right in which they advocated or at least defended political violence.

Thanks Grumbler.

[Razgovory]

During the Obama administration I saw groups armed to the teeth in case they needed to fight against over reaching government.  III%ers, Oath Keeprs, various unaffiliated Militias, etc.  These groups often used Nazis as examples of groups they needed to fight, yet when actual Nazis are marching through the streets they seem remarkably ambivalent.  It seems clear to me there are Conservative groups willing to to at least theoretically fight, yet none of them seem interested in countering the Nazis.

[Jacob]

Back Alley is free.

This thread will do. You're free to leave if you don't like the action.

[Sophie Scholl]

During the Obama administration I saw groups armed to the teeth in case they needed to fight against over reaching government.  III%ers, Oath Keeprs, various unaffiliated Militias, etc.  These groups often used Nazis as examples of groups they needed to fight, yet when actual Nazis are marching through the streets they seem remarkably ambivalent.  It seems clear to me there are Conservative groups willing to to at least theoretically fight, yet none of them seem interested in countering the Nazis.

I'd say they're more than ambivalent.  They're part of the same demonstrations on the same side.  Often times they offer to provide "security" to alt-right groups.  As if the police aren't a big enough "neutral" cheerleading group...

[Solmyr]

What's wrong with advocating violence against Nazis? The US did it in 1941-1945.

[grumbler]

I'm reminded of Yeats' poem (at least the start of it)  :

"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

Yes, and the fact that the poem is 99 years old indicates how persistent the problem has been. The alt-right and antifa are just the current US manifestations.

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

[grumbler]

I'm reminded of Yeats' poem (at least the start of it)  :

"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

I used to read The Second Coming to my students when talking about post world war I world.  I even got them to listen some times.

I think I've mentioned here that just about my favorite lesson in AP Euro is when, having finished the 30s and 40s, I challenge the students to look on the poem as prophecy, not description.  The usual responses are that the falcon is nationalism and the falconer the 19th C conservatives who tried to exploit nationalism to maintain power (thus leading to WW1), while Hitler is the rough beast.

One student, though, proposed an interpretation that I hadn't thought of:  the falcon is science, and the falconer is scientists, losing control of science to the politicians.  The rough beast is then the nuclear balance of terror, and Bethlehem is Hiroshima.