What percentage of books you own are by white authors?

Started by Savonarola, August 18, 2017, 02:40:10 PM

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grumbler

Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2017, 09:03:51 AM

Well people from the same parents can be of different races depending upon how the genes mix together. Is it completely beside the point? Well...yes and no. Yes so far as it is a big deal in society the fact that it does not actually correspond to anything important is beside the point. But most people think it is real and I have a hard time seeing race disappear as a social force so long as people have this misconception.

I agree.  What DGuller describes is racism, not race.  Racism is to race as religion is to gods.  Gods and race don't actually exist and don't themselves have any effect.  Belief in them exists and does have enormous impact.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

garbon

Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2017, 11:17:19 AM
Oh boy.

Not surprising though - he has been consistent on his stance.  Of course, it does seem like an irrelevant aside.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

The Brain

Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2017, 11:19:30 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2017, 11:17:19 AM
Oh boy.

Not surprising though - he has been consistent on his stance.  Of course, it does seem like an irrelevant aside.

Tell me about it. I've known his stance since 2003 I think.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

grumbler

Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2017, 11:19:30 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2017, 11:17:19 AM
Oh boy.

Not surprising though - he has been consistent on his stance.  Of course, it does seem like an irrelevant aside.

I'm not convinced that it is irrelevant, though.  If we behave as though race actually exists, and blame the problems of, say, the "blacks" in America on the fact that they are members of a black race (and construct solutions that depend on them being members of a black race), then, if that black race does not exist, our solutions cannot succeed.

If, on the other hand, we target racism as the problem rather than race, we are trying to counter a belief, not a "fact."
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

derspiess

The "color-blind" point of view used to be considered progressive, but now many are considering it racist.  Could the same be happening to the "race is a social construct" point of view?
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

garbon

Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2017, 11:38:27 AM
The "color-blind" point of view used to be considered progressive, but now many are considering it racist.  Could the same be happening to the "race is a social construct" point of view?

You are basing this on the grumbler n=1?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

Quote from: grumbler on August 21, 2017, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2017, 11:19:30 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2017, 11:17:19 AM
Oh boy.

Not surprising though - he has been consistent on his stance.  Of course, it does seem like an irrelevant aside.

I'm not convinced that it is irrelevant, though.  If we behave as though race actually exists, and blame the problems of, say, the "blacks" in America on the fact that they are members of a black race (and construct solutions that depend on them being members of a black race), then, if that black race does not exist, our solutions cannot succeed.

If, on the other hand, we target racism as the problem rather than race, we are trying to counter a belief, not a "fact."

But I think people are doing that anyway. I don't think people are noting 'black race' as the problem. The problems are with regards to what happens to people who are seen as being 'black'.  I also think if you try see 'black' as only race and ignore the cultural components that have become codified in that identity (from within as well as without), I think you are missing an important part of the picture.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

grumbler

Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2017, 12:08:12 PM
But I think people are doing that anyway. I don't think people are noting 'black race' as the problem. The problems are with regards to what happens to people who are seen as being 'black'.  I also think if you try see 'black' as only race and ignore the cultural components that have become codified in that identity (from within as well as without), I think you are missing an important part of the picture.

The cultural, personal identity, and ancestry components are covered by the concept of ethnicity.  What, in your mind, is the difference between race and ethnicity?

Can an individual choose his or her race?  Can an individual choose his or her ethnicity?
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

garbon

Quote from: grumbler on August 21, 2017, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2017, 12:08:12 PM
But I think people are doing that anyway. I don't think people are noting 'black race' as the problem. The problems are with regards to what happens to people who are seen as being 'black'.  I also think if you try see 'black' as only race and ignore the cultural components that have become codified in that identity (from within as well as without), I think you are missing an important part of the picture.

The cultural, personal identity, and ancestry components are covered by the concept of ethnicity.  What, in your mind, is the difference between race and ethnicity?

Can an individual choose his or her race?  Can an individual choose his or her ethnicity?

Depends on one's school of thought. After all, I'm supposedly able to claim both my white and black heritage but I know that no matter what I may possibly think, I'm going to be put by others into a non-white category (though not likely black as most white people that I've surveyed don't guess black).

I'm not sure how much, in daily usage, people in the US make a big split between ethnicity and race beyond say things like Hispanic white or Italian both as subsets of the white racial category.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

grumbler

Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2017, 12:14:36 PM

Depends on one's school of thought. After all, I'm supposedly able to claim both my white and black heritage but I know that no matter what I may possibly think, I'm going to be put by others into a non-white category (though not likely black as most white people that I've surveyed don't guess black).

I'm not sure how much, in daily usage, people in the US make a big split between ethnicity and race beyond say things like Hispanic white or Italian both as subsets of the white racial category.

So, Italians are an ethnicity, but Germans are a race?  How does that work?  Are the Japanese also a race, as they claim, or do others get to assign races (and, if so, who)?
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

garbon

Sorry, I thought you were actually interested in a discussion not a Socratic dialogue. My apologies. -_-
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

derspiess

Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2017, 12:05:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2017, 11:38:27 AM
The "color-blind" point of view used to be considered progressive, but now many are considering it racist.  Could the same be happening to the "race is a social construct" point of view?

You are basing this on the grumbler n=1?

No.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Jacob

Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2017, 11:38:27 AM
The "color-blind" point of view used to be considered progressive, but now many are considering it racist.  Could the same be happening to the "race is a social construct" point of view?

Possibly, but I don't think so. I think what we're seeing is a shift from "race is a social construct, so we should act like it means nothing" to "race is a social construct, and we should acknowledge and respond to the impact it has."

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2017, 09:29:40 AM
Because, you know, he lacked the Constitutional ability to do that. Lincoln was ever the lawyer. And how was it incrementalist? It freed every single slave in the rebel states at the same time without compensation.

well, it was one big increment?