Britain Begins to Break

[Queequeg]

Wow, Marty gets punked yet again, and on such a predictable subject.

To be fair this is a pretty common myth that Afghans tend to talk up as much as anyone else.  And I think it is fair to say that they've been a real thorn in every civilized army's side since at least the Durranis.

[Berkut]

Wow, Marty gets punked yet again, and on such a predictable subject.

To be fair this is a pretty common myth that Afghans tend to talk up as much as anyone else.  And I think it is fair to say that they've been a real thorn in every civilized army's side since at least the Durranis.

That isn't really the point though - it isn't that he isn't some expert on Afghan history, it is that he constantly gets himself all emo-raged up about issues that he actually only has this ridiculously cursory knowledge about, and it always turns out to be this pop/mass culture kind of "everyone knows" sort of stupidity.

Just like this.

[grumbler]

Tell your own dudes to stop killing each other in FF incidents, and then complain about Yi's pilots.

I'm not aware of any such incident?

http://www.thestar.com/article/189052

Also, Master Corporal Jeffrey Walsh

[viper37]

Tell your own dudes to stop killing each other in FF incidents, and then complain about Yi's pilots.

I'm not aware of any such incident?

http://www.thestar.com/article/189052

Also, Master Corporal Jeffrey Walsh

I don't know them all by name, but thanks for reminding me this one.
2 others died in mysterious circumstances too, maybe suicide, I never read the follow up.
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/04/24/Canadian_soldier_found_dead_on_Afghan_base/

[Sheilbh]

Opposition to the war is polling one point behind support for the war (46-47%, I believe).  But the last time it was polled (2006) support for the war was 15 points lower (31%) and opposition 6 points lower (41%). 

[Valmy]

The Taliban is on the decline again.  Those soldiers shall not have died in vain.

[KRonn]

Condolences on the loss of the soldiers. 

Afghanistan has been on the back burner for a while, too long, and is now getting a priority. Sadly, we'll see more casualties from all our nations but I hope, and I do think, that the commanders and political leadership has begun new strategies learned from lessons there and elsewhere. It has a long ways to go though, and the Afghan government is pretty weak and corrupt, and the military isn't apparently isn't nearly what's needed. It will take time, and unfortunately the last seven years haven't been used to make enough progress, certainly due to the focus on Iraq. So it seems to me like we're almost starting over, or nearly doing so. One significant note would seem to be the change in attitudes towards the Taliban and AQ by Pakistanis, where tribes and the government have gone against them now quite heavily.

[Josquius]

The thing with Afghanistan was generally it wasn't worthwhile to hold it.
The British were happy with it being neutral as long as it didn't bother India. There was nothing to be made out of occupying the place afterall.

[garbon]

All true.  The Safavids made a pretty good go of it fairly recently, so did the Mughals. 

They did a good job of holding onto it? The Afghanis revolted a lot under those two regimes and went on to topple the Safavids...

[crazy canuck]

Tell your own dudes to stop killing each other in FF incidents, and then complain about Yi's pilots.

I'm not aware of any such incident?

http://www.thestar.com/article/189052

Also, Master Corporal Jeffrey Walsh

Accidental shots going off in barracks is different from American planes dropping bombs on our troops which was the point Viper was making.

[Queequeg]

They did a good job of holding onto it? The Afghanis revolted a lot under those two regimes and went on to topple the Safavids...

Between the two of them they held onto it for a century at least.  That counts as a reasonably successful occupation, as we haven't even been there for 10 years.  And the Qajaris were Oghuz Turks, not Pashtuns, which is what Afghanis would mean in this period (and still means, for the most part, as they form the plurality in Afghanistan).

[garbon]

Between the two of them they held onto it for a century at least.  That counts as a reasonably successful occupation, as we haven't even been there for 10 years.  And the Qajaris were Oghuz Turks, not Pashtuns, which is what Afghanis would mean in this period (and still means, for the most part, as they form the plurality in Afghanistan).

The Safaivds were pretty much toppled by the Hotakis. What came with Safavid restoration until complete demise was pretty much an abortion.  I also wouldn't really say that either the Safavids or the Mughals really had good control over the Afghani tribes of the regions, although they may have had governors installed in the major cities.

[Queequeg]

The Safaivds were pretty much toppled by the Hotakis. What came with Safavid restoration until complete demise was pretty much an abortion.  I also wouldn't really say that either the Safavids or the Mughals really had good control over the Afghani tribes of the regions, although they may have had governors installed in the major cities.

Be careful to differentiate Afghanis (Pashtuns) from other Afghans (Tajiks, Baluchis).  You and I know the difference, but ignorant folks (like say, certain Polish lawyers) don't. 

That's fair on the Hotakis, I'd forgotten about them.  I presumed you meant the Qajar, for some reason.  That said, the semi-independent Beyliks of Azerbaijan (and other areas of Oghuz settlement) were the traditional trouble spots, areas of recruitment and birthplace of post-Timurid Persian dynasties.  The Pashtuns were relatively unimportant.

That seems fairly reasonable, though I think it is necessary again to differentiate Tajik Afghanistan (which is, historically, ethnically and linguistically part of a nation that includes modern Iran and Tajikstan) from batshit Pashtunistan.  Cities like Herat were pretty central to Iranian culture and for a while very wealthy and influential, though the areas of the Pashtun probably haven't seen real civilization since the Greco-Bactrians. 

[garbon]

Be careful to differentiate Afghanis (Pashtuns) from other Afghans (Tajiks, Baluchis).  You and I know the difference, but ignorant folks (like say, certain Polish lawyers) don't. 

That seems fairly reasonable, though I think it is necessary again to differentiate Tajik Afghanistan (which is, historically, ethnically and linguistically part of a nation that includes modern Iran and Tajikstan) from batshit Pashtunistan.  Cities like Herat were pretty central to Iranian culture and for a while very wealthy and influential, though the areas of the Pashtun probably haven't seen real civilization since the Greco-Bactrians. 

Mir Wais and progeny were chilling in Kandahar before they moved on Isfahan.

[Admiral Yi]

Hey Squeelus, who in Afghanistan speaks Farsi?  I got the impression from The Kite Runner that it was/is the first language of the educated urban elite.