US navy ship collides, 7 missing

[The Brain]

I'd like to think that Western naval vessels have fewer instances of Costa Concordia style captaining than civilian ships, though they did run Missouri aground.

Or look up the Honda Point Disaster.

I had never heard of that one. Thank you!

[HisMajestyBOB]

Pretty sure the law of gross tonnage says the destroyer should give way.

[The Brain]

Pretty sure the law of gross tonnage says the destroyer should give way.

katmai The Lawgiver?

[grumbler]

what I meant, is long before they could see it on a trajectory that would likely result in a collision course, they should have spotted there was a danger and take appropriate measures.

Ships change course at sea.  Without further information, we can't tell when the ships were on a collision course.

You mean the US Destroyer could likely not change course or speed to avoid the freighter when it looks likely it will be hit by some freighter?

How "fixed" are these rules?  Are they like absolute rules, or more like guidelines?

It means precisely that, when a privileged vessel perceives that there is a danger of collision, it cannot change course or speed.  The burdened vessel must do that, and it must be able to count on the privileged vessel standing on it's course and speed, else the burdened vessel's maneuvers will otherwise be incorrect and maybe even worsen the danger.

Those rules are very fixed.  If a privileged vessel maneuvers and there is a collision, the collision is 100% the privileged vessel's fault.

The rule disappears when the privileged vessel determines that it is in extremis; that is, it determines that both vessels must maneuver to avoid collision.  It sounds 5 short blasts of the ship's whistle* and turns to starboard, slows, or both.  It cannot turn to port and it cannot speed up.

The fact that the USS Fitzgerald was hit on its starboard side would tend to indicate it was the giveway vessel, and thus at fault.  I can't imagine the circumstances in which a US Navy ship steaming independently would be the giveway vessel and still collide.


*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over.  In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.

[viper37]

that makes it clearer.  Thank you very much Grumbler

[Eddie Teach]

*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over.  In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.

I don't think any are reading this.

[CountDeMoney]

*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over.  In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.

I don't think any are reading this.

Captain Ed is out back on the poop deck.  MASTER AND COMMODE: THE FAR SIDE OF THE SHITTER

[sbr]

what I meant, is long before they could see it on a trajectory that would likely result in a collision course, they should have spotted there was a danger and take appropriate measures.

Ships change course at sea.  Without further information, we can't tell when the ships were on a collision course.

You mean the US Destroyer could likely not change course or speed to avoid the freighter when it looks likely it will be hit by some freighter?

How "fixed" are these rules?  Are they like absolute rules, or more like guidelines?

It means precisely that, when a privileged vessel perceives that there is a danger of collision, it cannot change course or speed.  The burdened vessel must do that, and it must be able to count on the privileged vessel standing on it's course and speed, else the burdened vessel's maneuvers will otherwise be incorrect and maybe even worsen the danger.

Those rules are very fixed.  If a privileged vessel maneuvers and there is a collision, the collision is 100% the privileged vessel's fault.

The rule disappears when the privileged vessel determines that it is in extremis; that is, it determines that both vessels must maneuver to avoid collision.  It sounds 5 short blasts of the ship's whistle* and turns to starboard, slows, or both.  It cannot turn to port and it cannot speed up.

The fact that the USS Fitzgerald was hit on its starboard side would tend to indicate it was the giveway vessel, and thus at fault.  I can't imagine the circumstances in which a US Navy ship steaming independently would be the giveway vessel and still collide.


*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over.  In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.

Very interesting.  What determines the privileged and giveaway vessel?

[DontSayBanana]

Very interesting.  What determines the privileged and giveaway vessel?

Mentioned further up in the thread, just double-checked: the larger vessel. Which makes sense, since it would have a harder time maneuvering anyway.

[grumbler]

Very interesting.  What determines the privileged and giveaway vessel?

The vessel to starboard, or ahead, is the privileged vessel.  Size has nothing to do with it, unless in a channel where ships restricted in their ability to maneuver have the right of way (and they have to fly a symbol indicating that).

[sbr]

None of this sounds very good at all for the Fitzgerald.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-asia-exclusive-idUSKBN19H13C

Exclusive: U.S. warship stayed on deadly collision course despite warning - container ship captain

A U.S. warship struck by a container vessel in Japanese waters failed to respond to warning signals or take evasive action before a collision that killed seven of its crew, according to a report of the incident by the Philippine cargo ship's captain.

Multiple U.S. and Japanese investigations are under way into how the guided missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald and the much larger ACX Crystal container ship collided in clear weather south of Tokyo Bay in the early hours of June 17.

In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship's captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald "suddenly" steamed on to a course to cross its path.

The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula's report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters.

The U.S. Navy declined to comment and Reuters was not able to independently verify the account.

The collision tore a gash below the Fitzgerald's waterline, killing seven sailors in what was the greatest loss of life on a U.S. Navy vessel since the USS Cole was bombed in Yemen's Aden harbor in 2000.

Those who died were in their berthing compartments, while the Fitzgerald's commander was injured in his cabin, suggesting that no alarm warning of an imminent collision was sounded.

A spokesman for the U.S. Navy's Seventh Fleet in Yokosuka, the Fitzgerald's home port, said he was unable to comment on an ongoing investigation.

The incident has spurred six investigations, including two internal hearings by the U.S. Navy and a probe by the United States Coast Guard (USCG) on behalf of the National Transportation Safety Board. The Japan Transport Safety Board, the JCG and the Philippines government are also conducting separate investigations.

Spokesmen from the Japan Coast Guard (JCG), U.S. Coast Guard and ship owner, Dainichi Invest, also declined to comment. Reuters was not able to contact Advincula, who was no longer in Japan.

The investigations will examine witness testimony and electronic data to determine how a naval destroyer fitted with sophisticated radar could be struck by a vessel more than three times its size.

Another focus of the probes has been the length of time it took the ACX Crystal to report the collision. The JCG says it was first notified at 2:25 a.m., nearly an hour after the accident.

In his report, the ACX Crystal's captain said there was "confusion" on his ship's bridge, and that it turned around and returned to the collision site after continuing for 6 nautical miles (11 km).

Shipping data in Thomson Reuters Eikon shows that the ACX Crystal, chartered by Japan's Nippon Yusen KK (9101.T), made a complete U-turn between 12:58 a.m. and 2:46 a.m.



(Reporting by Tim Kelly; Additional reporting by Nobuhiro Kubo; Editing by Alex Richardson)

[CountDeMoney]

Link to an article which has bridge audio from the USS Porter collision with a Japanese supertanker and its 160,000 tons in the Strait of Hormuz, you can hear the 5 blasts referenced earlier--

https://pilotonline.com/news/military/audio-confusion-reigned-before-destroyer-s-collision/article_c7472be8-efcb-5763-93bb-aab66d820175.html

grumbler, you should get a kick out of this one if you've never heard it before--

OOD: "We should turn."
Captain: "Meh."

Cost:  $50+ million in repairs and one captain's career.  Guess which one got finished first.

[Ed Anger]

*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over.  In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.

I don't think any are reading this.

Captain Ed is out back on the poop deck.  MASTER AND COMMODE: THE FAR SIDE OF THE SHITTER

You can be my best boy. I like buggery.

[grumbler]

Link to an article which has bridge audio from the USS Porter collision with a Japanese supertanker and its 160,000 tons in the Strait of Hormuz, you can hear the 5 blasts referenced earlier--

https://pilotonline.com/news/military/audio-confusion-reigned-before-destroyer-s-collision/article_c7472be8-efcb-5763-93bb-aab66d820175.html

grumbler, you should get a kick out of this one if you've never heard it before--

OOD: "We should turn."
Captain: "Meh."

Cost:  $50+ million in repairs and one captain's career.  Guess which one got finished first.

I hadn't heard that one before.

"Confusion reigned before destroyer's collision" has been the death knell of a number of sailors.  Never, never, ever turn to port, unless you want your career to end with the guilt of murdering shipmates.

[CountDeMoney]

I will hand it to the USN;  when it comes to accountability, they do not fuck around.

Top Two Officers on Navy Ship in Deadly Collision Off Japan to Be Relieved of Duties
By ERIC SCHMITT
AUG. 17, 2017
The Failing New York Times

WASHINGTON — About a dozen American sailors aboard a destroyer during a deadly collision off the coast of Japan in June will be punished for their roles in the accident, including the two top officers, who will be relieved of duty, a senior Navy official said Thursday.

The disciplinary measures were announced as the Navy released a harrowing preliminary report on the collision between the American destroyer Fitzgerald and a freighter that killed seven people in one of the Navy's deadliest accidents in years.

The ship's captain, Cmdr. Bryce Benson; his second-in-command; the senior enlisted sailor and all who were on watch that night will face career-killing administrative punishments that are expected to be doled out on Friday by the head of the Navy's Seventh Fleet in Japan, Vice Adm. Joseph P. Aucoin.

Dozens of sailors who were rocked from their slumber, the report said, raced in the dark to escape from their flooding quarters. Within 90 seconds, seawater rushing through a gaping hole in starboard hull was at first waist-high, then neck-high as sailors pushed aside mattresses, wall lockers and other floating debris to clamber up a ladder to safety. The last sailor pulled from the chaos was underwater when his shipmates yanked him up.

The freighter crashed directly into Commander Benson's stateroom, ripping open a huge hole and trapping him inside. It took five sailors, using a sledgehammer and kettlebell, 25 minutes to break down the door to his cabin to rescue the captain, who was seriously injured and hanging from the side of the ship.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/world/asia/fitzgerald-collision-investigation.html

Redacted preliminary report link below: some hardcore heroism, as per Navy SOP

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/17/world/asia/document-navy-report-on-uss-fitzgerald.html