Élection présidentielle française

[Duque de Bragança]

Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!

Not during the first round no...

I thought France had no government during the re-occupation of the Rhineland.

Yep, interim government.

[Duque de Bragança]

Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!

Not during the first round no...

All right.
Not during the second round too.

[Duque de Bragança]

Not voting for Macron, nor Le Pen, means crypto-frontiste now? That means lots of people from the left too here. Careful, PC crusader!

The assessment is not based on your potential vote in this one election, but rather your record of statements over the last several years.

Well, assessments or rather opinions as shown in this thread are like arseholes, everybody has got one.

[Valmy]

All right.
Not during the second round too.

You have your views on the subject. I have mine. Is opposing the far right make you a PC crusader now? Though granted just throwing around that bullshit term in such a critical moment for the entire Western World is probably damning enough for you.

[Duque de Bragança]

All right.
Not during the second round too.

You have your views on the subject. I have mine. Is opposing the far right make you a PC crusader now? Though granted just throwing around that bullshit term in such a critical moment for the entire Western World is probably damning enough for you.

There are much better ways of opposing the far right than voting for Macron and his clique. Le Pen won't be elected. If she were, she would not get a majority given the majority voting system, very unfriendly to smaller parties. Mind you, it could happen to Macron too, hopefully yes IMO.

[The Minsky Moment]

Her Dad was in the OAS, is a extreme-right troll, not really interested in power yet she gets lots of votes from North African-born French Jews (pied-noirs) and from these North Africans who served in the French Army during the Algerian war , so the reality is more complex.

Her father is a raving anti-Semite.  She has a much more slick media operation but you don't have to dig very far in that party organization to hit scum.
Getting votes from Algerian Jews says a lot about the self-delusion of that community but not much about the character of the FN.

Recall back in the early 30s and even later there were plenty of people in the West willing to defend Hitler and Mussolini as misunderstood nationalists.

Bottom line is that you and grallon have been whipping Macron for pages because of what you imagine he represents, where he worked, his formation, his position in society, his "multiculturalist stance" his "stable" - all of which really amount to nothing except this - you don't like the cut of his jib.  What we're not hearing is what policy he has that is so terrible that France should opt for FN.

[Valmy]

He is a puppet of big international capital! Because nationalists are never corrupt no sir.

[Ancient Demon]

Getting votes from Algerian Jews says a lot about the self-delusion of that community but not much about the character of the FN.

Why shouldn't Algerian Jews fear Muslims more than the FN? Where's most of the violence and harassment coming from?

[The Minsky Moment]

Why shouldn't Algerian Jews fear Muslims more than the FN? Where's most of the violence and harassment coming from?

That's a false dichotomy if there ever was one.

[Duque de Bragança]

Her father is a raving anti-Semite.  She has a much more slick media operation but you don't have to dig very far in that party organization to hit scum.

FN n°2, Phillipot, is a former Chevènement supporter, homosexual (Grallon connection?), n°3 is Alliot, quarter Jew. I really don't think Le Pen approved. The classic extreme-right types like Lesquen, Radio Courtoisie or Rivarol newspaper types don't like it, to say the least.

Getting votes from Algerian Jews says a lot about the self-delusion of that community but not much about the character of the FN.

Well, Algerians don't see them as Algerians, nor do they see themselves as Algerians. Français de confession israélite. Case in point: Zemmour, quite the trublion.

Le Pen father anti-semitism is something he shares with islamists or North African youths, the ones the PC left likes, but at a distance, i.e in a banlieue. Le Pen for such a radical he is does not kill Jews, unlike radical North African youths à la Mohamed Merah. Le Pen father trolls are best ignored, unfortunately this does not work for islamists, specially the violent variety.

I am drifting a bit here, but the Crémieux décret, granting French citizenship to Jews in Algeria, seems to be a curse in disguise regarding the relations betweens Jews and North Africans in France, rather than the Israeli-Arab conflict, as commonly suggested.

Recall back in the early 30s and even later there were plenty of people in the West willing to defend Hitler and Mussolini as misunderstood nationalists.

Go back to the '30s again? Why not Salazar and Metaxas? Or Dolfuss if you really need an Austrian? Authoritarian tendencies, but not fascist. Her program is close to Mélenchon's, economy-wise.

Bottom line is that you and grallon have been whipping Macron for pages because of what you imagine he represents, where he worked, his formation, his position in society, his "multiculturalist stance" his "stable" - all of which really amount to nothing except this - you don't like the cut of his jib.  What we're not hearing is what policy he has that is so terrible that France should opt for FN.

I didn't say opt for FN. Wait for the Legislative elections and reign Macron in. Marine won't get elected.

I know who Macron is, a living caricature of a classist provincial bourgeois that makes Le Pen feel at home among workers. Quite a feat. Marine is a lawyer
I know what he has done. At best, nothing much. His free-market reforms have had at best a small positive impact: Macron coaches or easier Sunday opening for stores in the big cities. Small changes.
For the El-Khomri labour flexibilisation reform law (Macron was one of the minds behind it) which created extreme polarisation, the effect is yet to be seen. Lots of changes were retracted after wide opposition.

Small results and wide discontent.

The only way he is going to get some reform-minded legislation, in a free-market/classic liberal way, is by having a massive Identity politics diversion to keep the people busy, à la Mitterrand in '83. Expect no immigration reform, where reforms are badly needed. In the old times, till the '80s, the communists (cf. Marchais) were even against all immigration yet they were spared the anti-fascist theatre.

Among other problems, he never ran for office before, so his political experience is quite new. Of course, he can say he is no career politician and this helped him in the campaign but the pro-Macron media barrage won't last forever. When problems hit harder and they will hit, the lack of coherent majority, experience or simply character will hit harshly.
I suppose he can pass some legislation during the "summer honey moon" if some kind of coalition is set up by having the PS and some centrists behind him. Beyond that...

He has potential for lots of worse, by pandering to his heterogeneous base with all kinds of communautarisme-friendly measures. At the very least, he can start his mandate by a cohabitation, an unequaled feat, not even Chirac achieved it. Die Große Koalition is not exactly popular in France, as you probably know.
So what do we get? 5 lost years, à la Hollande, with a media darling instead, opening the way for you know whom: Marine.

[The Minsky Moment]

Why not Salazar and Metaxas? Or Dolfuss if you really need an Austrian?

That's supposed to be a defense?

Her program is close to Mélenchon's, economy-wise.

Again - is that supposed to be a defense?

Small results and wide discontent.

The only way he is going to get some reform-minded legislation, in a free-market/classic liberal way, is by having a massive Identity politics diversion to keep the people busy, à la Mitterrand in '83.

That says sad things about the state of politics in France, but not really about Macron

In the old times, till the '80s, the communists (cf. Marchais) were even against all immigration yet they were spared the anti-fascist theatre.

So now we've compared the FN program to 3 1930s era soft fascist dictators, a hard left splitter from the PS, and the old PCF.  Can I assume that is not meant as praise?

[Valmy]

Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?

[HVC]

Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?

Different people are different and thus the cause of everything that is wrong. It's been the natural social state since forever, tolerance is relatively new and not that long lived. When things go well it's easier, but things get tough people need someone to blame.

[Jacob]

Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?

Not everyone, but that's been Duque's POV for a while.

[citizen k]

Anti-fascist theatre? Fuck you dude. Has everybody gone fucking insane?

Different people are different and thus the cause of everything that is wrong. It's been the natural social state since forever, tolerance is relatively new and not that long lived. When things go well it's easier, but things get tough people need someone to blame.

I'm sure Valmy will mellow with age.