100th Anniversary of the Russian Revolution thread

Started by Valmy, January 26, 2017, 02:04:46 PM

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Valmy

#30
February 16, 2017, 01:04:56 PM
Quote from: Delirium on February 16, 2017, 12:51:27 PM
I think it is an open question how much the two revolutions can really be said to be connected. February, uprising in St Petersburg/Petrograd, Tsar abdicates, provisional government (headed by liberal prince) takes over, continues war among other things. Socialists roaming about. October is the real thing. Wonder which of them Putin would want to associate with? Probably Lenin's...brought powerful leadership at least.

A mass uprising seems more of a real revolution than a coup but that's just me :P

Anyway the Socialists were not 'roaming around' they controlled the majority of offices in the provisional government. Like Kerensky.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Delirium

#31
February 16, 2017, 05:10:39 PM
I think people would debate you on both points, was it a "mass uprising" and did Lenin just perform a "coup"?

In any case I think the future Soviet Union decided the matter by quite clearly defining the October revolution as their cherished moment of glory.
Come writers and critics who prophesize with your pen, and keep your eyes wide the chance won't come again; but don't speak too soon for the wheel's still in spin, and there's no telling who that it's naming. For the loser now will be later to win, cause the times they are a-changin'. -- B Dylan

garbon

#32
February 16, 2017, 05:57:18 PM
To make sure I'm a decadent transatlantic sodomite, I'll be seeing the Royal Academy's show with a uni (college) friend of mine in a few weeks. Mentioning Malevich had her hooked. :cool:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

#33
February 17, 2017, 12:01:33 PM
Quote from: Delirium on February 16, 2017, 05:10:39 PM
I think people would debate you on both points, was it a "mass uprising" and did Lenin just perform a "coup"?

In any case I think the future Soviet Union decided the matter by quite clearly defining the October revolution as their cherished moment of glory.

The Soviet Union decided many things, but I think they rarely did so in a manner that was particularly convincing to anybody outside of their bubble :P

The February Revolution was obviously a mass uprising, it was unplanned and spontaneous. The October Revolution was in the style of the Insurrection of August 10th in that other more awesome revolution.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Delirium

#34
February 17, 2017, 12:50:58 PM
 :hmm:

You realize the Soviet Union were a pretty big thing?

I submit that when we refer to the 'Russian Revolution' 99 out of 100 people think of Lenin and what brought on the Soviet Union.

And that is unfair, but if there is no Lenin and Soviet Union with all that follows from that which is a HUGE historical turning point in the 20th century then we would not talk more of the February revolution than the German November revolution of 1918. That is not to say that they are unimportant events, but not the watershed of October, whether we like it or not.
Come writers and critics who prophesize with your pen, and keep your eyes wide the chance won't come again; but don't speak too soon for the wheel's still in spin, and there's no telling who that it's naming. For the loser now will be later to win, cause the times they are a-changin'. -- B Dylan

Valmy

#35
February 17, 2017, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: Delirium on February 17, 2017, 12:50:58 PM
:hmm:

You realize the Soviet Union were a pretty big thing?

It was. Since it is no longer that has us regard the revolution a bit differently doesn't it?

QuoteI submit that when we refer to the 'Russian Revolution' 99 out of 100 people think of Lenin and what brought on the Soviet Union.

That would make sense, as it did eventually put Lenin into power. But like all revolutions there plenty of twists and turns along the way.

QuoteAnd that is unfair, but if there is no Lenin and Soviet Union with all that follows from that which is a HUGE historical turning point in the 20th century then we would not talk more of the February revolution than the German November revolution of 1918. That is not to say that they are unimportant events, but not the watershed of October, whether we like it or not.

I did not say Red October, nor the Insurrection of 10 August, were not important events. I only said the February Revolution was a real deal revolution. A socialist government was pretty inevitable at this point. The question was would it be the SRs and Mensheviks or the Bolsheviks heading it up? That was decided by the Coup.

And I am not sure I agree with the assertion it would not be as important as November 1918 in Germany. If the French Revolution had created a stable Constitutional Monarchy would 1789 not have been a big deal?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#36
February 17, 2017, 02:10:30 PM
I guess I consider the 'Russian Revolution' to be something that goes from the 8th of March until the 8th of November 1917.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#37
February 17, 2017, 02:22:17 PM
So it seems that the Russian Government has spent some effort rehabilitating White Generals like Denikin and Kolchak over the years. That is very interesting. I wish we had a poster in Russia just so I could get a good idea of how the Revolution is being acknowledged this year.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

#38
February 17, 2017, 02:57:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 17, 2017, 02:22:17 PM
So it seems that the Russian Government has spent some effort rehabilitating White Generals like Denikin and Kolchak over the years. That is very interesting. I wish we had a poster in Russia just so I could get a good idea of how the Revolution is being acknowledged this year.

I've read a couple of articles that it is very much being down-played, and no celebrations are planned.  Mostly it's because under Putin the concepts being stressed are "stability", not "revolution".
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

garbon

#39
March 26, 2017, 10:31:26 AM
Finally saw the exhibit at the Royal Academy. They had some nice pieces including works by Kuzma Petrov-Vodkin whose stuff I'd never seen and a replica room of a living space designed by El Lissitzky. Also a lot of photographs of artists which were kind of cool to see.

They definitely were very worried though not to be glorifying communism. Many of the works were accompanied with a blurb about how the artist was shot, sent to a gulag, starved to death in a siege, etc. Near the end there was also a small room where they projected mugshots of various individuals killed by Stalin. Seemed rather unnecessary.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Ancient Demon

#40
March 26, 2017, 10:36:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 01, 2017, 07:09:12 PM
Though everybody knows the Italian fascists had the best art amongst totalitarian regimes.

Ancient Demon, formerly known as Zagys.

Razgovory

#41
March 26, 2017, 10:38:41 AM
I'm with Valmy in the idea that ouster of the czar was a revolution and the Lenin launched a coup.  You know, if anyone would have a legitimate stab-in-the-back legend you'd think it would be the Russians.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ancient Demon

#42
March 26, 2017, 10:47:58 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 17, 2017, 02:57:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 17, 2017, 02:22:17 PM
So it seems that the Russian Government has spent some effort rehabilitating White Generals like Denikin and Kolchak over the years. That is very interesting. I wish we had a poster in Russia just so I could get a good idea of how the Revolution is being acknowledged this year.

I've read a couple of articles that it is very much being down-played, and no celebrations are planned.  Mostly it's because under Putin the concepts being stressed are "stability", not "revolution".

Though Putin is sometimes believed to be trying to bring back the USSR, it's likely he's more keen on the Czarist empire instead. It was even bigger, and without the communist baggage.
Ancient Demon, formerly known as Zagys.
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