UN's security council votes against Israel's settlements, US refuses to veto...

[grumbler]

How predictable. Michigan loses and grumbler logs on to troll people.

How predictable.  Dorsey logs on just to troll people even when his team doesn't lose.  How did Notre Dame's bowl go, again?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Good lord, you're strawmanning like a mofo Berk. I guess so many years of being a frothy lefty have left you struggling to keep things coherent.

All I'm saying is:

1. It's kind of hypocritical to pussy-bleed about Israel's "illegal occupation", because a) it was the result of winning a defensive war, and b) Jordan actually occupied the West Bank for like 20 years and faced no international scorn at all. Same for Syria and Lebanon for that matter. Not to mention Russia and Crimea and East Ukraine, Transnistra, South Ossetia etc. Israel is being held to a standard no other country is being held to. Fuck, it won a defensive war and is actually willing to give up land in exchange for some territory it has seized. Most countries that have won wars and take territory take it, period. Israel isn't the heavy here like you're making it out to be -

Israel isn't avoiding annexation of these territories out of any good intentions. They're keeping these lands in limbo because they know finalizing the war with annexation results in the known outcomes of a one state solution - the rapid end of Israel as either a democratic or Jewish state. Option 1 is to go full South African apartheid and end democracy. Option 2 is to give citizenship to 4.2 million West Bankers / Gazan Arabs. In combination with the existing 1.7 million Israeli Arabs they'd only a be few generations away from an Arab majority Knesset.

Luckily that's the first time anyone has mentioned that in this thread--but there's nothing stopping them from annexing the parts of the West Bank on the Israeli side of the boundary wall (which is probably all they'd ever really want to annex anyway, due to the reasons that have been mentioned multiple times before your superfluous post.)

[Fate]

Good lord, you're strawmanning like a mofo Berk. I guess so many years of being a frothy lefty have left you struggling to keep things coherent.

All I'm saying is:

1. It's kind of hypocritical to pussy-bleed about Israel's "illegal occupation", because a) it was the result of winning a defensive war, and b) Jordan actually occupied the West Bank for like 20 years and faced no international scorn at all. Same for Syria and Lebanon for that matter. Not to mention Russia and Crimea and East Ukraine, Transnistra, South Ossetia etc. Israel is being held to a standard no other country is being held to. Fuck, it won a defensive war and is actually willing to give up land in exchange for some territory it has seized. Most countries that have won wars and take territory take it, period. Israel isn't the heavy here like you're making it out to be -

Israel isn't avoiding annexation of these territories out of any good intentions. They're keeping these lands in limbo because they know finalizing the war with annexation results in the known outcomes of a one state solution - the rapid end of Israel as either a democratic or Jewish state. Option 1 is to go full South African apartheid and end democracy. Option 2 is to give citizenship to 4.2 million West Bankers / Gazan Arabs. In combination with the existing 1.7 million Israeli Arabs they'd only a be few generations away from an Arab majority Knesset.

Luckily that's the first time anyone has mentioned that in this thread--but there's nothing stopping them from annexing the parts of the West Bank on the Israeli side of the boundary wall (which is probably all they'd ever really want to annex anyway, due to the reasons that have been mentioned multiple times before your superfluous post.)

Obviously anything behind the current barrier is going to get included in a future Israeli state. But I take it you've seen circa 2016 West Bank settlement maps (ex. http://peacenow.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/settlements_map_eng-2016_new.pdf ). There's a shit ton of settler activity building up on any open land between Arab villages in the West Bank. Something like 80-100k Jews with 40% of all new construction happening beyond the barrier.

What Israeli government is going to surrender built up areas beyond the barrier? Netanyahu? His even more ultra-right wing friends like Lieberman? I think they're continuing to build up these areas to make a two state solution untenable. Unless you seriously think there's a future peace plan that results in the Arabs signing onto a state which consists of 10-20 non-contiguous enclaves with all entry/exit points controlled by a foreign power. Alternatively, you have to devise a universe where ultra right wing jewish government forces 100k Jews from their homes beyond the wall. Gaza only had like 8k Jews and that relocation cost Sharon a hell of a lot.

[jimmy olsen]

Speaking of Israel and the West Bank

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.763074

Analysis  //  Hebron Shooter Elor Azaria Is Indeed The Norm 

Over the past year and a half, dozens of Palestinian men, women and children have been killed, even though they could have been overpowered while they were still alive. The difference between them and Azaria is that he was videotaped.

...

[Eddie Teach]

Oddly enough, I am not subscribed to Haaretz.

[Valmy]

Speaking of Israel and the West Bank

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.763074

Analysis  //  Hebron Shooter Elor Azaria Is Indeed The Norm 

Over the past year and a half, dozens of Palestinian men, women and children have been killed, even though they could have been overpowered while they were still alive. The difference between them and Azaria is that he was videotaped.

...

Ethnic conflict is an ugly thing.

[Phillip V]

For Israel, Energy Boom Could Make Friends Out of Enemies

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/14/world/middleeast/israel-energy-boom.html

[Syt]

http://www.dw.com/en/israel-approves-566-new-homes-in-east-jerusalem-settlements/a-37229751

Israel approves 566 new homes in east Jerusalem settlements

"The rules of the game have changed with Donald Trump," the city's mayor declared after approving the homes. Benjamin Netanyahu had delayed a vote on the homes until the end of Barack Obama's presidency.

Israeli authorities approved building permits for 566 new homes in east Jerusalem settlements, city officials announced on Sunday.

The approvals came just two days after the inauguration of US President Donald Trump, who had vowed during his election campaign to provide strong support for Israel .

"The rules of the game have changed with Donald Trump's arrival as president," the city's deputy mayor Meir Turjeman told the AFP news agency.

"We no longer have our hands tied as in the time of Barack Obama. Now we can finally build."

Turjeman said plans for 11,000 other homes in East Jerusalem were also being processed, but he did not say when they would move forward.

In December Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu postponed a Jerusalem city council vote on issuing the permits after the US allowed the passing of a highly critical resolution by the United Nations Security Council.

It demanded "Israel immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including east Jerusalem." Netanyahu refused to back down from settlement construction, despite the December resolution, and issued a series of diplomatic retributions.

Trump chastised then-US President Barack Obama's administration for abstaining from the vote, and the Republican-controlled US House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly in favor of a bipartisan measure declaring unwavering support for Israel and condemning the UN stance on Jewish settlements.

Trump's new ambassador to Israel had close ties to West Bank developments and was reportedly hostile to a two-state solution.

President Trump and Netanyahu spoke later on Sunday to discuss an invitation to the prime minister to visit the White House in early February, which Netanyahu announced he had accepted. Ahead of the call, Netanyahu had said he also planned to discuss the conflict with the Palestinians, Syria and "the Iranian threat."

Netanyahu had strongly opposed the nuclear deal between Iran and global powers, including the US, which Trump had also been critical of in his campaign.

Chairman of Jerusalem city hall's Planning and Building committee, Meir Turgeman, told Israel Radio the permits had been delayed until Obama left office.

It wasn't immediately clear whether the new homes needed further approvals before construction could begin.

The approved homes were in the neighborhoods of Pisgat Zeev, Ramot and Ramat Shlomo, according to Turjeman, who also headed the planning committee that approved them.

"We've been through eight tough years with Obama pressuring to freeze construction. Although the Jerusalem municipality has not frozen plans, many times we did not get government approval because of American pressure," Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat said Sunday.

"I hope that era is over and we now we can build and develop Jerusalem for the welfare of its residents, Jews and Arabs alike."

Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, condemned the plans and called on the UN to take action. 

"It is time to stop dealing with Israel as a state above the law," he said.

Earlier in January more than 70 countries, including the US, gathered in Paris to discuss the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu slammed the meet as "rigged" against his country.

[Valmy]

"We no longer have our hands tied as in the time of Barack Obama. Now we can finally build."

LOL fuck you guys.

[Razgovory]

For Israel, Energy Boom Could Make Friends Out of Enemies

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/14/world/middleeast/israel-energy-boom.html

Cool, they named a ship after Malthus.

[Capetan Mihali]

Catching up on the last month in this thread is something else.  OvB's dedication to the cause is truly exceptional.

[garbon]

Curious. I guess we don't want anyone to like us?

http://thehill.com/policy/international/317655-white-house-warns-israel-on-settlements-report

White House warns Israel on settlements: report

The White House on Thursday warned Israel to stop settlement announcements that could undermine a two-state solution with the Palestinians, according to the Jerusalem Post.

The surprising statement comes as President Trump signaled he would depart from former President Obama's Israel policy and forge a close relationship with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a strong proponent of settlements.

But Trump was reportedly blindsided by Israel's announcement of 5,500 new housing units to be built in the West Bank, which would have been the first new settlement in around 20 years.

"As President Trump has made clear, he is very interested in reaching a deal that would end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and is currently exploring the best means of making progress toward that goal," an official told the paper.

"With that in mind, we urge all parties from taking unilateral actions that could undermine our ability to make progress, including settlement announcements," the official added. "The administration needs to have the chance to fully consult with all parties on the way forward."

Trump's election is believed to have emboldened Netanyahu's government, which has moved aggressively to expand its settlement activity.

Netanyahu is set to meet with Trump at the White House on Feb. 15.

Trump signaled during the transition he would make moves to align the U.S. closer with Israel's government.

He announced his intent to nominate David Friedman, a strong settlement supporter, as ambassador to the Jewish state.

In December, Trump's team reportedly pressured Obama to scuttle a U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlement construction. But the previous administration allowed the controversial measure to pass, abstaining from the vote.

But since entering the White House, Trump has backed off some of his more aggressive promises, including a plan to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Trump repeatedly said during the campaign he wants his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, to help broker a Middle East peace deal.

[mongers]

Curious. I guess we don't want anyone to like us?

http://thehill.com/policy/international/317655-white-house-warns-israel-on-settlements-report

The headmaster lectures, he doesn't teach.

[garbon]

I'll admit, I'm not surprised that Trump was blindsided.

[Solmyr]

Would be funny if Trump managed to bring peace to the Middle East by being such an asshole to everyone that they unite in hatred against him.