CIA: Senate briefed in September on Russian efforts to deliver a Trump victory

[LaCroix]

to help prevent doing to trump what some on the right did to obama

I don't follow. What do you mean?

partisan hackery. it's generally good to empathize with those one disagrees with because, in one way, it can help with identifying mistakes made by the opposition to help ensure one doesn't repeat those same mistakes.

[Valmy]

to help prevent doing to trump what some on the right did to obama

I don't follow. What do you mean?

partisan hackery. it's generally good to empathize with those one disagrees with because, in one way, it can help with identifying mistakes made by the opposition to help ensure one doesn't repeat those same mistakes.

To be fair to the opposition they kind of kicked ass since Obama has been elected in every election except 2012. This probably is not indicative of a mistake having been made.

[Jacob]

partisan hackery. it's generally good to empathize with those one disagrees with because, in one way, it can help with identifying mistakes made by the opposition to help ensure one doesn't repeat those same mistakes.

Worked out fine for the GOP it seems. And now you suggest - with the GOP controlling all the levers of power - that it's time to show empathy for the party which is built on saying "fuck you, we have no empathy for those who are not like us"?

[LaCroix]

partisan hackery. it's generally good to empathize with those one disagrees with because, in one way, it can help with identifying mistakes made by the opposition to help ensure one doesn't repeat those same mistakes.

Worked out fine for the GOP it seems. And now you suggest - with the GOP controlling all the levers of power - that it's time to show empathy for the party which is built on saying "fuck you, we have no empathy for those who are not like us"?

I'm not arguing what's effective to win the game, though I think it's probably more the case that they did well despite their antics rather than because of them.

if you think it's OK to be bring vindictiveness into politics, and it should actually be encouraged, then we're at a fundamental disagreement. seriously, you're like the last poster I'd imagine would say, "fuck empathy"

[Jacob]

I'm not arguing what's effective to win the game, though I think it's probably more the case that they did well despite their antics rather than because of them.

if you think it's OK to be bring vindictiveness into politics, and it should actually be encouraged, then we're at a fundamental disagreement. seriously, you're like the last poster I'd imagine would say, "fuck empathy"

Personally I'm somewhat worried that the victory was not in spite of but explicitly because of their antics - filibustering a supreme court justice appointment under Obama, blatantly pushing misinformation and lies and aspersions that are widely believed, voter suppression, gerrymandering significantly tilted towards the GOP across the nation, political intervention in favour of the GOP by the FBI while the CIA sits on intelligence that casts Trump in a bad light to not interfere in the election... it seems hard to put the GOP victory down to being in spite of hackery.

I'm not saying "fuck empathy". I am wondering what you mean that we should "help prevent doing to Trump what the right did to Obama". None of the above are within the Democratic remit, much less that of the average internet poster.

The two don't compare - and not because of arguments about empathy - but because the tools for doing what the right did to Obama are not available.

[LaCroix]

"right did to obama" = the general illwill felt by conservatives, including the various conspiracy theories and other nonsense. I wasn't referring to republican politicians

[Jacob]

"right did to obama" = the general illwill felt by conservatives, including the various conspiracy theories and other nonsense. I wasn't referring to republican politicians

I'd argue there's a significant difference - what "the right did to Obama" was largely based on fabrications. Trump is already - as president elect - giving more than enough purely fact based material to justify general ill will.

The hatchet job that the right did on Obama is no reason to let Trump's abject bullshit slide; rather the opposite.

[MadImmortalMan]

Republicans are under the impression that their lawmakers have a history of being pussies and getting run over by Dems, and that bipartisanship always involves them compromising but never Dems compromising. So when Jake says maybe it's because of their antics, I can see that.

[LaCroix]

@Jacob -- the situations aren't exactly identical, correct, but I've been seeing a spike of attacks directed at trump for things that either he didn't do or are probably not true.

[Jacob]

Republicans are under the impression that their lawmakers have a history of being pussies and getting run over by Dems, and that bipartisanship always involves them compromising but never Dems compromising. So when Jake says maybe it's because of their antics, I can see that.

Dems are under the exact same impression, it seems to me, with the addendum that when Republicans engage in ridiculous antics and tantrums they bamboozle the Democrats into giving away pretty much everything for the fiction of Republican concessions which the GOP then walks back at the earliest opportunity.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's something I hear expressed pretty frequently.

[KRonn]

Republicans are under the impression that their lawmakers have a history of being pussies and getting run over by Dems, and that bipartisanship always involves them compromising but never Dems compromising. So when Jake says maybe it's because of their antics, I can see that.

Dems are under the exact same impression, it seems to me, with the addendum that when Republicans engage in ridiculous antics and tantrums they bamboozle the Democrats into giving away pretty much everything for the fiction of Republican concessions which the GOP then walks back at the earliest opportunity.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's something I hear expressed pretty frequently.

Each side does the same, so I guess it depends on one's perspective. It did seem the view from repub voters that the Republicans caved very often to Obama or the dems, or didn't stand up to them. Right or wrong that seemed the definite perception. Such as pretty much signing off on one of the recent budget deals which angered many repub voters with line items they opposed and expected to be defeated. So much so that I was surprised that voters kept the republicans in the majority in Congress in the last election.

[Barrister]

Apparently this is the first ever conspiracy that Alex Jones demands to see proof of before he'll believe it:

https://twitter.com/RealAlexJones/status/808393500924510209

[Valmy]

Apparently this is the first ever conspiracy that Alex Jones demands to see proof of before he'll believe it:

https://twitter.com/RealAlexJones/status/808393500924510209

Oh wow. Now I have seen everything

[Legbiter]

Tim being so sure only meant one thing.

[jimmy olsen]

, political intervention in favour of the GOP by the FBI while the CIA sits on intelligence that casts Trump in a bad light to not interfere in the election...

The CIA went to Obama with their info. Not their fault he chose to do jack with the info.