CIA: Senate briefed in September on Russian efforts to deliver a Trump victory

[The Minsky Moment]

I like what John Mulaney said about Trump-- that he's not really that rich, but is a comic book/hobo's vision of a rich person.

edit: https://youtu.be/dBNBAgtjYV8?t=30

There's something to that, but the simple truth is that Trump is extremely rich by any rational standard.  Once you are in the billion dollar range, it's silly to say otherwise.

Those Forbes lists are easily gamed though.  There's always some that are trying to push their way up the list, and others who try to hide it.  Donald is definitely in category 1=

[Tonitrus]

Overall, the article's portrayal of what Putin said is quite fair/spot-on.

Here's the whole point he was trying to make:

И наконец, знаете, что я хочу сказать? Проституция – это серьёзное, безобразное социальное явление. Ведь молодые женщины занимаются этим в том числе и в связи с тем, что они по-другому не могут обеспечить себя достойным образом. И это в значительной степени вина общества и государства.

А вот люди, которые заказывают фальшивки подобного рода, которые сейчас распространяются против избранного Президента США, фабрикуют их и используют в политической борьбе, – хуже, чем проститутки. У них нет никаких вообще моральных ограничений

My bad translation again: "And finally, you know what I want to say?  Prostitution is a serious, ugly social phenomenon.  After all, young women who engage in it, and including those involved with it, they have no other way to provide for themselves in a dignified manner.  And this, in large part, is the fault of society and the state.

A then people, who make up falsehoods of this kind, which are now being spread against the President-elect, and are fabricating them to use in a political fight, are worse than prostitutes.  They don't have any kind of general moral limitations."

So I think the point Putin is making, is that at least prostitutes can be viewed with sympathy...as almost victims of society and the state...and might normally have some kind of moral compass...while saying that the "fabricators" have none whatsoever.

[The Minsky Moment]

Putin's argument is  . .. interesting.  Trump likes to hang out with beautiful women who are much younger then him, and that proves he is unlikely to seek the services of prostitutes?  It seems like he is trying to subtly add fuel to the fire.

[Admiral Yi]

I get a kick out of the insinuation that pageant organizers get to bang all the contestants. 

[Tonitrus]

Putin's argument is  . .. interesting.  Trump likes to hang out with beautiful women who are much younger then him, and that proves he is unlikely to seek the services of prostitutes?  It seems like he is trying to subtly add fuel to the fire.

I don't think that quite was his argument.  More along the lines of "he's involved with the most beautiful women in the world, so I doubt he would need the service of prostitutes".


So a bit more like Yi said. 

[Tonitrus]

I get a kick out of the insinuation that pageant organizers get to bang all the contestants. 

In Soviet Russia, contestants bang YOU!

[The Minsky Moment]

I don't think that quite was his argument.  More along the lines of "he's involved with the most beautiful women in the world, so I doubt he would need the service of prostitutes".


So a bit more like Yi said. 

I got that - just don't think the conclusion follows the premise at all.
If a person is so used to side dishes he puts his millions into these pageants, how likely is it he will abstain completely when travelling overseas?

[grumbler]

There's something to that, but the simple truth is that Trump is extremely rich by any rational standard.  Once you are in the billion dollar range, it's silly to say otherwise.

What evidence do we have that he is worth a billion dollars? he flees in terror from any activity that might reveal his real wealth, like releasing his tax returns, or setting up a blind trust.  It could be that he is hiding the fact that he is only worth a billion, but the research that i have seen seems to indicate the actual value of assets (less the name) isn't even a billion.

So, yes, he is extremely rich, but not likely one of the richest men in America.

[The Minsky Moment]

He owns Trump Tower, valued at 600M, with a mortgage of 100M.  He owns Doral, valued at around 330 with a mortgage of 150.  add up a few other resorts and the net gets close to about a billion.  Then there are the minority stakes.  Those are harder to value but there are a bunch of them and some of the properties are quite substantial.  IMO it's unlikely he's worth significantly less then a billion.

He's not one of the richest men in America though - that's true.

[Admiral Yi]

Forbes said 4 and change not to long back.

[The Minsky Moment]

Right but the Forbes numbers are estimates, and the estimates get shakier as the assets get less transparent and/or liquid.  Trump has lots of minority stakes in illiquid assets and licensing deals the details of which are unknown so there are lot of gaps that have to be guessed at.

[grumbler]

He owns Trump Tower, valued at 600M, with a mortgage of 100M.  He owns Doral, valued at around 330 with a mortgage of 150.  add up a few other resorts and the net gets close to about a billion.  Then there are the minority stakes.  Those are harder to value but there are a bunch of them and some of the properties are quite substantial.  IMO it's unlikely he's worth significantly less then a billion.

He's not one of the richest men in America though - that's true.

According to the NYT guy I heard on NPR last week, who has researched Trump's holdings, he only owns title to the TT, and not even a majority of that.  He owns shares in other companies that own parts of other properties, but no one is sure of the extent of any such paper holdings.  Plus he has incomes from management fees and use of the brand.  It's not clear how much he's worth, and his own claims vary by the day.

[grumbler]

Forbes said 4 and change not to long back.

if he was worth 4 bill he'd released his tax returns.

[DGuller]

Doesn't Trump claim to be worth $10 billion?

On what day was he making the claim?  Tuesdays, it's $4 billion.  Thursdays, I believe, are his $10 billion dollar days.

Maybe his portfolio is a bit over-leveraged.

[CountDeMoney]

I don't think that quite was his argument.  More along the lines of "he's involved with the most beautiful women in the world, so I doubt he would need the service of prostitutes".

Having access to beautiful women has nothing to do with the ability to spend money on prostitutes.  Guys like Trump, when it comes to prostitutes it's about the ability to pay for pussy, not the pussy itself. 
You guys need to take more psych courses.