2017 impeachment - because it's never too early

Started by DGuller, November 11, 2016, 10:44:48 PM

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Caliga

Since there was an overwhelming media message of Hillary's inevitability, I would guess some of them figured she'd win no matter what, so they just didn't bother.
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Berkut

Quote from: Caliga on November 16, 2016, 09:44:52 AM
Since there was an overwhelming media message of Hillary's inevitability, I would guess some of them figured she'd win no matter what, so they just didn't bother.

Clinton took Oregon by more than 10% though.
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Maximus

Quote from: Barrister on November 15, 2016, 01:23:22 PM
She was a pretty bad candidate, but that's a different issue.
She wasn't even a bad candidate, she was just the wrong candidate for this season. She was a conservative and the people were looking for a revolutionary.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 09:39:45 AM
More than half of the anti-Trump protesters arrested in Portland, Oregon did not vote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3938928/More-half-112-anti-Trump-protesters-arrested-Portland-didn-t-vote.html

Not sure whether to laugh or cry. I guess these are just rubble-rousing thugs.

They probably all Sanders supporters who held their noses at HRC
You know - your kind of people.
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alfred russel

Quote from: Maximus on November 16, 2016, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 15, 2016, 01:23:22 PM
She was a pretty bad candidate, but that's a different issue.
She wasn't even a bad candidate, she was just the wrong candidate for this season. She was a conservative and the people were looking for a revolutionary.

She was a bad candidate. Her problems were:

-she is not an inspiring public speaker
-she is an elderly lady and appears at times physically frail
-whether justified or not, she is vulnerable to charges of corruption
-she has been in politics long enough that she has changed numerous positions, but at the same time she hasn't had roles to allow for a bunch of noteworthy individual achievements (first lady, junior senator)
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Maximus

Quote from: alfred russel on November 16, 2016, 01:16:43 PM
-she is not an inspiring public speaker
-she is an elderly lady and appears at times physically frail
-whether justified or not, she is vulnerable to charges of corruption
-she has been in politics long enough that she has changed numerous positions, but at the same time she hasn't had roles to allow for a bunch of noteworthy individual achievements (first lady, junior senator)

the effect of 1 and 2 are not significant IMO
3 is significant and could be said for anyone who has been the target of decades of smear tactics. Even so whe was one of the least vulnerable to this in this campaign.
4a is a positive and 4b is bullshit

alfred russel

Quote from: Maximus on November 16, 2016, 01:26:22 PM

the effect of 1 and 2 are not significant IMO
3 is significant and could be said for anyone who has been the target of decades of smear tactics. Even so whe was one of the least vulnerable to this in this campaign.
4a is a positive and 4b is bullshit

Are those your opinions of what should be important to swing voters, or what is important?

I think if you look at the history of US presidential elections, you will see the most attractive/charismatic candidate wins much more frequently.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

garbon

Quote from: Maximus on November 16, 2016, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 15, 2016, 01:23:22 PM
She was a pretty bad candidate, but that's a different issue.
She wasn't even a bad candidate, she was just the wrong candidate for this season. She was a conservative and the people were looking for a revolutionary.

Not sure I'd say that is accurate. Not going down some Clinton with more popular vote arm, but certainly hard to say that the people were looking for a revolutionary. A great many clearly were not.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Martinus

Quote from: Maximus on November 16, 2016, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 15, 2016, 01:23:22 PM
She was a pretty bad candidate, but that's a different issue.
She wasn't even a bad candidate, she was just the wrong candidate for this season. She was a conservative and the people were looking for a revolutionary.

Yeah, I have to agree. This was a time for populists. Bernie would have been a much better fit.

Martinus

Quote from: garbon on November 16, 2016, 02:37:37 PM
Quote from: Maximus on November 16, 2016, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 15, 2016, 01:23:22 PM
She was a pretty bad candidate, but that's a different issue.
She wasn't even a bad candidate, she was just the wrong candidate for this season. She was a conservative and the people were looking for a revolutionary.

Not sure I'd say that is accurate. Not going down some Clinton with more popular vote arm, but certainly hard to say that the people were looking for a revolutionary. A great many clearly were not.

I think the great many voted for her because they could not stomach Trump - but not as a revolutionary, but as a blowhard surrounded by some nasty people and himself employing some nasty rhetorics. I think a "nicer" revolutionary would get more votes.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Martinus



derspiess

Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 04:16:32 PM
I think the great many voted for her because they could not stomach Trump - but not as a revolutionary, but as a blowhard surrounded by some nasty people and himself employing some nasty rhetorics. I think a "nicer" revolutionary would get more votes.

As dedicated as the Woman Card Brigade here was to voting for their gal, when you got past the surface you could tell there wasn't a whole lot of actual enthusiasm for her.

As I've said, both candidates were awful.  I've heard "lesser of two evils" mumbled in other elections, but I can't remember an election where so many people said <Candidate X> isn't perfect and I really don't like him/her, but at least he/she isn't <Candidate Y>.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

viper37

Quote from: alfred russel on November 16, 2016, 01:16:43 PM
-she is not an inspiring public speaker
True.  Hitler was an inspiring speaker.  That guy, he makes you cry of passion when you don't understand german.

It's not like anyone can compete with "Grab them by the pussy!" as a rallying cry, after all. That was pure genius from Trump.

Quote
-she is an elderly lady and appears at times physically frail
She's 69.  Trump is 70.  Sanders is 75.

Quote
-whether justified or not, she is vulnerable to charges of corruption
True, she's a politician.  Unlike her crooked opponents who never pays taxes and uses every justifiable excuses to avoid paying the people working for him.


Quote
-she has been in politics long enough that she has changed numerous positions, but at the same time she hasn't had roles to allow for a bunch of noteworthy individual achievements (first lady, junior senator)

Same thing for Sanders.  And Trump hasn't done much either.  Inheriting money from dad and successfully launching a business after a few million$ interest free loan from dad is not a personal achievement.
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