2017 impeachment - because it's never too early

Started by DGuller, November 11, 2016, 10:44:48 PM

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garbon

#135
November 15, 2016, 03:17:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 15, 2016, 03:10:41 PM
In 2008 you had Edwards, Clinton, Obama, and Biden - all of them as credible candidates you could imagine winning. Hell, Edwards came in second in Iowa. But even then, Clinton was very much seen as the obvious winner.

In 2016 you had Clinton, and that is it. One credible candidate.

How did that come about?

garbon would have us believe that Dems just love Clinton so much that nobody else wanted to run against her, because she was just that big of a rock star, even compared to 2008.

I don't buy it.

To be honest, I don't care what you believe. Have fun with your conspiracy theory. Doesn't matter a single bit at this point.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Zanza

#136
November 15, 2016, 03:17:26 PM
Why were O'Malley, Chafee, or Webb not credible candidates? They won high office before.

Valmy

#137
November 15, 2016, 03:23:54 PM
That's a good question. I wondered that at the time. But I think Clinton had a large and passionate following. You needed to really have some juice to beat her.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

FunkMonk

#138
November 15, 2016, 03:26:46 PM
The only other Democrat that could have changed the outcome of the primary was Biden. When he chose not to run then Hillary became the far and ahead favorite.

Struggling to think of anyone else who could have changed the dynamics of the primary.
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

Admiral Yi

#139
November 15, 2016, 03:28:49 PM
I don't get the "not credible" candidate thing either.  Fizzling early in the primaries is not the same as lacking credibility.

derspiess

#140
November 15, 2016, 03:34:45 PM
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Zanza

#141
November 15, 2016, 03:37:07 PM
Occam's razor suggests that a candidate that wins in a democratic election wins because he is more popular among the electorate.

I think Donald Trump's victory shows that clearly. Hillary Clinton clearly had more support from the media, from her party, from economic, entertainment, scientific elites etc. and still lost.

celedhring

#142
November 15, 2016, 03:47:50 PM
I personally will file the "the Clintons didn't allow any democrat to shine for 8 years so there wasn't another Obama" alongside the "the Clintons killed Vince Foster" folder and the "Hillary is a sexual pawn of Huma Abedin who's actually an Al-Qaeda plant" folder.

There are more simpler reasons for the weakness of the Dem field this year. And yes, not wanting to run against the Dem establishment favorite was a strong one, without needing to imagine vast Clinton conspiracies to keep everybody else down.

Barrister

#143
November 15, 2016, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: celedhring on November 15, 2016, 03:47:50 PM
I personally will file the "the Clintons didn't allow any democrat to shine for 8 years so there wasn't another Obama" alongside the "the Clintons killed Vince Foster" folder and the "Hillary is a sexual pawn of Huma Abedin who's actually an Al-Qaeda plant" folder.

There are more simpler reasons for the weakness of the Dem field this year. And yes, not wanting to run against the Dem establishment favorite was a strong one, without needing to imagine vast Clinton conspiracies to keep everybody else down.

Plus Hillary was running with Obama's blessing and tacit support, and Obama was still very popular amongst Democrats.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

derspiess

#144
November 15, 2016, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: celedhring on November 15, 2016, 03:47:50 PM
I personally will file the "the Clintons didn't allow any democrat to shine for 8 years so there wasn't another Obama" alongside the "the Clintons killed Vince Foster" folder and the "Hillary is a sexual pawn of Huma Abedin who's actually an Al-Qaeda plant" folder.

There are more simpler reasons for the weakness of the Dem field this year. And yes, not wanting to run against the Dem establishment favorite was a strong one, without needing to imagine vast Clinton conspiracies to keep everybody else down.

Let me run this by you and tell me what you think: "Few potential Democrat primary candidates wanted to run against the Clinton machine."
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

#145
November 15, 2016, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 15, 2016, 03:56:12 PM
Plus Hillary was running with Obama's blessing and tacit support, and Obama was still very popular amongst Democrats.

I get the vibe that Hillary was not Obama's favorite, but that he felt like he had to support her to keep the party together.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

#146
November 15, 2016, 04:05:57 PM
See you would always say things about the " Clinton Machine" and make her sound amazing and powerful. But she couldn't even beat Donald Trump and just barely beat an elderly commie. Some "machine".
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

#147
November 15, 2016, 04:08:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 15, 2016, 04:05:57 PM
See you would always say things about the " Clinton Machine" and make her sound amazing and powerful. But she couldn't even beat Donald Trump and just barely beat an elderly commie. Some "machine".

Well the Clinton Machine is very effective at raising money...
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Admiral Yi

#148
November 15, 2016, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 15, 2016, 04:08:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 15, 2016, 04:05:57 PM
See you would always say things about the " Clinton Machine" and make her sound amazing and powerful. But she couldn't even beat Donald Trump and just barely beat an elderly commie. Some "machine".

Well the Clinton Machine is very effective at raising money...

And locking down superdelagates.  Which this year got turned into a weakness.

derspiess

#149
November 15, 2016, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 15, 2016, 04:05:57 PM
See you would always say things about the " Clinton Machine" and make her sound amazing and powerful. But she couldn't even beat Donald Trump and just barely beat an elderly commie. Some "machine".

She just happened to be a terrible candidate.  The Machine only gets you so far :P
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall
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